Ben-DutkaThis just needs to be said.
When looking at the aftermath of The Order: 1886 's widespread controversy, we can extract one truism from the mess:
Gamers are hypocrites. Well, at least those who claim they "don't care about reviews" and then spend hours freaking out about those reviews online. Let's face it: The only reason this game got the attention it did is because of the critical reception, which was all over the place. This prompted the firestorm; not rumors or false information, not promotional hype, etc. No, this was created entirely by reviews and review scores.
And yet, just about everywhere you look are a bunch of egotistical gamers shrieking about how they never read reviews, never look at scores, and don't care what "one person thinks." If you didn't care then we'd have forgotten about The Order by now. If the game had just raked in a bunch of 7s from most sources, or even if the game had netted a bunch of 9s and great scores overall, it wouldn't have received half the scrutiny. It did so because of the widespread critical disagreement on the game.
And the only way that gets out into the online atmosphere is if readers keep talking about it and clicking on those reviews. I'm really tired of the hypocrisy of gamers, and it also extends to those complaining incessantly about things like "clickbait" and microtransactions. "Clickbait" wouldn't exist if you wouldn't keep clicking on them; even if you don't, lots of others do. They're saying they want it. Don't blame the simple concept of supply-and-demand. Same with microtransactions; they're around because people use them . If they didn't work, they wouldn't exist.
So please, man up and admit that you do read some reviews, that you obviously care what score a game gets, that you will click on the latest "top 10 cosplays" article, and that you have purchased a microtransaction in the past. And even if you've done of these things, at least admit that a whole lot of your peers are doing it all. Simple.
Related Game(s): The Order: 1886
Yes I read game reviews. Yes I'm tired of reading about the "controversy" that has surrounded The Order for the past 2 weeks.
PAX East in a week! Who's going?
Last edited by TomBradySucks on 2/26/2015 10:04:50 PM
Don't worry Tom. It seems to have died down with most
sites. I just visited N4G and there isn't a single Order article listed on the main page.
Thank goodness.
I admit to reading Ben's reviews, but that is usually just to find out if a game is broken or does something that does not seat well with me(Assassins Greed Unity comes to mind).
But I make my choices about what games I want to play. No online, no super open world(Unless it is Minecraft LOL) and no micro-transactions for me.
just give me decent gameplay and great story and I'm all set.
LOL Guilty as charged.
I read reviews, I look at scores and I certainly compare reviews to others. What I don't do is let review scores persuade me to make a purchase or or hold off. I think most gamers when they say they don't read reviews, this is actually what they mean. At least the few on this site and elsewhere I've conversed with. There's a big difference.
I like to see the scores for games because it's interesting to me to see what the industry thinks of a game like The Order or Destiny which both got tons of publicity and tons of hype or tons of scrutiny and to see how it turns out. I like to see if reviewers are surprised or self righteous in their bold claims.
I don't care what reviews say or score a game anymore because of circumstances like The Order. I will most likely continue to read reviews, dissect reviews, and compare scores. What I won't do is let reviews dictate if I buy The Order or not.
Uh…no. I was defending The Order before the reviews came out. Did I read a couple because it was advertised in my email? Yeah. Doesn't change the fact people are playing and enjoying a game that reviewers said was bad.
Once again bringing back Dying Light. "Parkour is broken" and for the order "graphics are too good. go make movies" Reviewers are becoming increasingly bigger idiots.
How many articles do we need on this topic, really?
One more…
lol
As many as I deem necessary. You're more than welcome to not comment.
Bio… Ssshhh!
These editorials are comedy gold lol
You can see another one tomorrow and next week…
Really? 42
What I find comedic, frosty, is the number of people who respond to this article as if the article were directed at them.
Yeh I agree Underdog but you have to find the hypocrisy in Bens editorials entertaining at the same time.
Anyway, what's cracking with you these days?
Actually I agree the game maybe not be that bad like the metacritic % suggest but still it flopped at be the first AAA flag for the PS4 so theres not much point of still talk about it, I still don't know why a lot of people for whatever the reason thought Ready at Dawn of all developers would be the first to make it lol.
That game gonna be Bloodborne 🙂
Last edited by Oxvial on 2/27/2015 9:57:20 AM
Oh, I'd just love to hear what "hypocrisy" frostface is talking about.
I've been kinda busy of late. Balancing current job with trying to get a business off the ground. Finally getting some promising success, but not a ton of time. So, my posts here aren't nearly as long as they used to be, nor as often.
Still don't have a PS4, either. I say it's because there's no games, but honestly, I'm just worried it'll make me less accountable to trying to get the business running. For games, I've just been pushing my way slowly though the Kingdom Hearts remakes. Before that, I caught up on some of the AC series.
What about you?
Yep, I care and read reviews. It comes down to whether we ultimately make our own decisions on what we want to play or we follow what others tell us we should be playing. Let alone telling developers/studios what they should be creating and releasing.
Such as the reviews for Mirrors Edge and Beyond Two Souls. I read the reviews, but it did not stop me from buying the games or playing the demos. And I have greatly enjoyed both and replayed them numerous of times for various reasons.
I also read reviews for games that tell me I should not miss playing certain games. And I do skip them be because of playing the demo or watching some youtube gameplay. Saved my money for the games I really want to play.
Yep, I care. Or I wouldn't be visiting this site. 🙂
Keep playing!
i read reviews from different places (this site is my fav bc the opinions are very close to mine), BUT i never judge a game based off any review. ever.
if i get my hands on a game before i was able to read a review, great. if i happen to come across a review before i play a game, i will skim through it to avoid any spoilers and see what the highlight points are. regardless, i stay biased until i play it for myself.
as for microtransactions, it really depends on the game. for example, evolve is one of the worst ive seen. $136 (inc. game) just for some stupid skins and extra players? absolute nonsense. as fun as the game is, those micros are absolutely worthless. i really like the game but dont see myself paying for anything extra. i dont even like what the season pass is offering. destiny: yes, i bought the season pass bc i really like the game and what im getting for my money regardless of all the hating naysayers. cod: i ended up having a season pass for ghosts bc i bought the hardened edition (which i obvi regret) i have cod:aw but dont see myself paying for any of the extras.
so it really depends on the game and what im getting. when arkham knight comes out, i may buy the extras depending on whats offered. i just hope ff15 doesnt fall that route. what could they possibly offer? dress up ur character as cloud etc etc.
Please understand that some of those "hypocrites" are mad because many reviews doesn't do the game justice.
As some of you had said already and with all do respect ben I don't think you understand, yes we read review only to see what we should expect going into the game, getting a better understanding of the game. We including myself do not base our purchase on the the score it receives. I tend to look at reviews as guides, to see how the game plays, what the game has to offer etc. Keep in mind it's only to see if the game is worth full price or not, still buying it in The long run.
As for microtransactions, yes I have bought a few in my day sadly 🙁
Last edited by Big_Boss90 on 2/27/2015 1:19:52 AM
This site can give ffxv a 2/10 and I'd still buy the game cause it's within my interest. This goes for any other site, games, and/reviewers. This only became a hot topic because it's a AAA a game with high expectations. Nothing more imo.
To be honest the game could've been a lot more and the creators didn't help by denying the truth. Sure it wasn't exactly accurate but it's not like it was too far off. The game does have an abundance of qte and its not lengthy by any means.
We simply have one side defending the art of linear games and the other defending the value of the game. It's not necessarily caring more about the review scores. That's how I see it.
never ceases to amaze me how shortsighted people are these days!!!!!!
people don't care about reviews, they care about the EFFECTS those reviews are going to have!!
I was actually thinking that same thing as I read it, tbh.
Or woman up, as the case may be for some of our esteemed PSXE commenters! 😀
Anyways, while review scores can be helpful, I think the content of the reviews are more telling. For example, IGN scored it fairly low, but the content within the review didn't really give me any red flags to indicate I might not enjoy the game. Collectively, reviews across the board, I know it's not a AAA production. The scores help show that. But I also know it might be the best graphical performance we've ever seen, which is not really reflected in the review scores, but rather in the content.
Last edited by Underdog15 on 2/27/2015 8:00:06 AM
The way i see it is, its ben's site so its up to ben what he can an cannot say.
Except it's not his site. He's the editor-in-chief. He doesn't own it. He's an employee.
Mind you, he does far more than his title indicates, but he doesn't own it. He didn't begin writing here until the PS3 era (or maybe very late PS2, not sure).
Last edited by Underdog15 on 2/28/2015 6:52:16 PM
I don't read reviews or look at scores anymore not after I notice that games I enjoy most get low scores and games that piss me off get higher scores.
I agree with the folks saying this whole situation is comedy gold. My favorite of the hypocrisy is when people cry about critics not giving objective review but then say "I played the first hour. 9 out of 10!" lmao. Yeah thats objective. Seriously though, it's a monumental stretch to give this game an 8, any thing above that is just silly. To put this game so close to games that redefined genres makes zero sense. A 1 point or 1.5 points difference between The Order and say….Red Dead Redemption? Get the hell outta here……
Last edited by n/a on 2/27/2015 9:02:32 AM
Just depends on the experience. Those are 2 games that are extremely different. I respect the industry for having to review games that offer so many different aspects and try and balance it all. But that where it's falling apart. A game like RDR is scoring better because it's open, there's freedom and missions variety but it's still a TPS. I'm not going to use The Order as an example because I have not played it, and I'm hearing suggestions it's not a typical TPS. Anyways as for a linear TPS its linear ;), so we look for storytelling, game play mechanics and confined circumstances to keep the player engaged. That's tough to balance and it's becoming more clear that preference is creeping in.
anyways I agree RDR is hard for any game to top based on everything about it. For me that game redefined open world. I thought the mechanics were a little loose but very well for an open world, especially riding horses and carriages. The gameplay was solid and the story actually was compelling. I genuinely cared for Marston and his counterparts which is very rare for an open world game. Especially one from Rockstar.
But I'm not a fan of the 10 scale. Reason being is it makes that 1 or 1.5 point difference look a lot less marginal. On a 5 point scale that 1.5 turns into a .75 difference and that could make it drop into the average to mediocre 3 range pretty quickly.
Sorry for the long post. I'm trying to offer some food for thought is all. I probably didn't explain it well enough.
You've never been objective a day in your life, evidently. Why are you even still here?
That was really unnecessary, Ben. Man I'm so tired of that side of you. Like I've said, either ban someone or treat them with the respect one should expect from a community manager.
This "why are you still here" bullshit is just so premature. He's here because you let him be here, that's why. To snap with comments like that is just *begging* for a new fight, can't you see that yourself?
A while ago you said you'll never bother reading Kids post again. It was a good advice you gave yourself that day.
Sorry, but I had to let that off my chest.
Beam: Man, I appreciate it but it's really ok. It's just words. Typed. By a complete stranger. Im a black guy that grew up in an all white neighborhood. The proverbial turd in a snowstorm. This is no big deal.Plus, this is entertainment for me and my jerky internet verion of me hasn't helped. Ben's a cool dude. If we worked together at EB, we would have got along pretty well, i think… May not be his intention, but he gives me a good chuckle every time he gets mad at me.
Railer: I completely agree with you about Red Dead. It was the first open world game I didn't get bored with and stopped to play something else. But here it's not an Order vs RDR thing. I see ratings on games like this:
1-6 is for the technical side, how the games functions, load times, glitches, blah blah blah.
6-7.5 is for the excecution of the package, pacing, story, gameplay and how well that comes together.
7.5 to 9 is for innovation, what new ideas does it bring to the table.
9 to 10 is a judgment call by the.reviewer and that's impact, how the game will affect gamers and the industry as a whole, is this game the new standard bearer.
Beam: Don't really care. He had zero respect for me and this site the instant he arrived. He called me a "second-rate hack" after I retracted my Unity score and never fails to slam a PlayStation game. So yes, I wonder why he's here, and yes, it's clear he can't be objective.
I can ask those questions because I have more than enough evidence to ask them. He's done nothing ban-worthy. He just acts like a prick to me and I'll respond however I like, thank you.
Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 2/27/2015 2:19:38 PM
For the sake of argument, I found RDR to be bland and empty. It would be a short game if you didn't have to spend so much time doing nothing. All it really had going for it was a story. Graphics were below average, gameplay was decent due to the experience with GTA, but repetitive, predictable, and somewhat sluggish, and the open world concept was extremely dull.
It's another "AAA" game that I just didn't enjoy. I also disliked Fallout 3, God of War games, and GTA games, although the latter two I see the value. Just don't like 'em. Fallout is good, but dull and visually unappealing.
My point is, The Order seems to have some features that are in a completely whole other league of it's own compared to RDR, for example graphics. So it's not difficult to believe it's within a 10-15 percentile of one another. So while it may lose marks in some areas, it gains ground in others and still results in a fairly significant overall score difference.
What is different for YOU is in what you personally value. Not in concrete, overall objectivity. And I find it hard to agree with some reviewers who don't defend the low scores well. Not because I think it's a good game, but because they either can't defend their score well, or because they simply aren't good at writing.
Last edited by Underdog15 on 2/27/2015 2:42:45 PM
As someone else said it's not so much reviews it's the impact of negative reviews on that particular title.
Since anyone with Internet connection can have access to reviews a gamer that loves XYZ title will try to attack the reviewer. I guess at the end of the day a gamer wants everyone or the majority of peers to enjoy this title and negative review can prevent that possibility.
I care about reviews. I rarely ever agree with them and almost never allow then to steer me away from a game i am interested in. I bought the Order day one and it is brilliant. I do not understand the scores for this title. I honestly think it is intentional to keep the PS4 on the same level as the x1. If this was not an exclusive, I bet it would have received 9's
I don't, everyone (including people here) shat on Castlevania LoS 2 and for me it was a 8.0 game.
Last edited by Oxvial on 2/27/2015 9:46:11 AM
I really need to play LoS2. I thought the demo was great. I think also I'd enjoy it more than the average reviewer. I have a friend on PSN who has been playing it consistently for a good while now.
LOS2 is definitely in my radar but with Bloodborne, Dragon Age, The Witcher 3 still on my to-play list it's going to be VERY difficult.
Maybe after the semester ends (May 3rd) I'll be able to play more often.
I do read reviews and I don't care about them if the game gives me hours of fun.
My current problem is that my wallet (and my wife and kids) don't allow me to buy every game that reaches the market, so I have to be careful about which games I buy to not waste my money.
If someone on this site tells me The Order: 1886 is a good game and I will enjoy it then I will get it, regardless of reviews I have read so far.
yeah i here ya and i get it for most people you can't buy every other game that comes along and if you can your quite blessed
I don't give two craps about reviews. Reviews are filled with to much opinion based nonsense. I go by the old analogy; Opinions are like assholes everybody has one and theirs stinks.
I've been gaming since Atari 2600 so I have a pretty good grasp on what I'm looking for in my hobby. The only thing I usually look for before a games release is if it's broken and/or if it's been patched. If I were to go by metacritic scores I would have missed out on Lollipop Chainsaw, Toukiden:The Age of Demons, Killer is Dead, Trinity:Souls of Zill O'll, Catlevania:Lords of Shadow 2, Drakengard 3, White Knight Chronicles 1&2, and my favorite….. Sorcery.
Video games are starting to become politics with people picking sides with biased and skewed view points. If I wanted hatred and insults I would go read CNN and Fox news sites! It sucks people can't just sit down, chillax with a beer and enjoy some Order 1886 and Ryse.
Last edited by Evil Incarnate on 2/27/2015 1:32:03 PM
"and then spend hours freaking out about those reviews online"
The keyword is "online". No one offline cares and most people who comment only do so,because you cannot go to any website without seeing threads or headline about the reviews.
I myself have not looked at a single review and only know about it because of headlines like this and seeing it plastered all over game forums.the gaming community who post about it online are a minority,not the majority.
I have only known one person offline to even mention reviews.Discussing the topic at hand does not mean people care about reviews or even read reviews as most people just look at the score.
yeah i have done most of that in the past but that was in my teens and that that part of my teens seems like a life time ago now. but i am much more selective bout DLC and microtransaction and i don't really pay any attention to the cosplays anymore got better things to do and finally yeah with reviews and scores i mostly look at them only for games i'm into mostly out of curiosity cos i know what i'm going to buy and not with out them most of the time but then again theres always to the exception to the rule.
and to quote karosso "I admit to reading Ben's reviews, but that is usually just to find out if a game is broken or does something that does not seat well with me" thats what i read them for too its usually quite helpful
but i really try my utmost to not be hypocritical i want to be a man of my word thats what i strive for. not say one thing and do another like alot of people it seems.
happy gaming
Your writing flow and train of thought has gotten a lot better my man. Very nice 😀
I have to say, the Order's critical treatment moved me one step further away from personally caring about review scores (it may have been the final nail in the coffin, to be honest, outside of those here and at Dualshockers).
That said, I do care that the devs at RAD get properly appreciated for their work, and the gaming media have failed that studio like they've failed no other. On that level, even if I personally don't care about review scores (which I still did a little more broadly prior to The Order, but after that mess it's quite clear that 90% of the gaming media aren't worth the bandwidth their articles are written on) I still care that devs get treated poorly.