Ben-DutkaApparently, Microsoft thinks all gamers have terrible memories.
Xbox executive Albert Penello has said it's basically "meaningless" to compare system specifications between two consoles, because as he told OXM , "this isn't like 1990, when it was 16-bit versus 32-bit." …is this guy serious?
Well, on the one hand, he has a point. Two points, in fact. Power and capability doesn't sell consoles; games sell consoles. Secondly, times have indeed changed and the power comparison isn't as cut-and-dry as it once was. But this guy has some nerve in saying comparing specs is "meaningless," because I distinctly recall the original Xbox's primary marketing campaign. Don't you remember it? It was part of the slogan. It was part of many ads. "The most powerful game system ever made" was repeated incessantly during the Xbox/PlayStation generation. And hey, as the Xbox essentially had no games , they sort of had to pin their hopes on power.
But you can't pull a complete 180 years later, just because you're no longer in an advantageous position in the marketplace. And you certainly can't claim you're "all about games" when you've lost the exclusive software battle in each of the past generations. You lost it by a landslide, and that was after you stole away a bunch of PlayStation exclusives by bribing developers and publishers. Then, you start hearing about designers saying the PS4 is more powerful, and you make some absurd comparison to 1990? As if power and raw capability is a total non-issue…? Okay.
I will always put the software before the hardware. You could have the most powerful game machine in the world; without great titles to go along with it, it's just a really fancy paperweight. But these MS executives should really think before they speak. We already know they think all gamers are a bunch of saps; a bunch of sheep; a bunch of lapdogs. We have ample evidence of that with the whole DRM and "24-hour check-in" fiasco, don't we? So now they insult everyone's intelligence (and long-term memories) by making that kind of statement? I mean, it's just ridiculous.
Wow, never thought you could embarrass yourselves further, Microsoft. But you managed. I shouldn't have underestimated you.
I think console manufacturers have learned that marketing with an aggressive 'more powerful' message with your hardware doesn't always translate to high sales. I remember Nintendo talked big about the tech behind the N64. MS talked big about the Xbox. Sony talked astronomically big about PS3. I'm sure none of which really hit the sort of sales they were hoping.
Saying power is meaningless these days isn't really true though. I agree it doesn't appear as critical these days as it did in the past. I remember seeing the 2005 E3 trailers for like Killzone and Motorstorm, thinking they were just such a huge leap over the prior gen, even if they were a tad exaggerated. This time while it's a big jump we're basically improving on what was near-cinematic gaming. So now it seems most gamers are okay with higher res ports of trans-generational games. Where games looking more open, sharper, and more detailed seems to be the real draw, sorta like PC gamer style draw. I said sorta. It also seems to be more a developer celebration than anything with the next-gen.
Anyway, I'm sorta getting antsy to see more next-gen games. Yah, Infamous and KZ both look expectidly cool. 1886 shows promise. But is there anything else coming within the launch window or first year? Seems sorta dry.
Atari Jaguar, 64-bits:
"Do The Math!"
Remember that slogan?
There are 40 exclusive titles in develpment, by Sony Worldwide studios (Guerilla Games, Santa monica Studios, Naughty Dog etc.), and 12 of them are brand new IP´s it means that other 28 games are sequels or prequels (like Uncharted 4, GoW 4 etc, even I cant imagine what those 28 excluisves are which are not brand new IP´s). And maybe some second party developers will do some exclusives but 40 exclusives is a big number.
american's can't do the math so obviously that campaign failed =p
I know that this guy pretty much has to take the company line and try to minimize the disadvantages of the hardware he's promoting, but this is pathetic! A 50% handicap in graphics performance on top of a $100 price gap is going to more than a wave of the hand to brush off. The casuals may not care about the graphics gap, but money talks! He may be trying to come off as casual and confident but it just tells me that the Xbone crew are still bricking themselves.
It means nothing to them because they will be holding back all the games not exclusive to PS4 and so have the equally powerful version or only version.
No it's not 1990, we have the internet now so which system is more powerful is based on fact versus schoolyard opinion.
This has been an unfortunate part of the console generations.
Honestly, I personally find it stupid that developers chose not to take full advantage of each consoles hardware, if people choose the PS4 version of the Xbox version, because it looks better, than that's no issue for the dev.
Just go out there and push both consoles as much as you can. What are they worried about?
IMHO it makes alot more difference seeing as this past generation the 360 & ps3 both were held back due to lack of memory & sometimes a lack of graphical power(es) on the 360 side. Also, the lack of blu-ray hurt xbox, maybe not it in sales, but in the degree of the games, yes. On the ps3 there were some things sony wanted to do. but didt have enough memory to push certain things, like crossgame chat or a better web browser. So, while I agree with Ben's 2 points – M$ exc. lost me in his reasoning with why we shouldn't care which is more powerful. Not to mention that M$ had to tell developers to scale back there games to make it seem as if there was gap between the ps3 & 360 hardware. LMBO
Last edited by BattleFox21 on 6/29/2013 3:48:11 AM
@Akuma07 I guess the only thing they have to worry about is how much M$ is going to pay them to promote their version versus the PS3 version.
"Wow, never thought you could embarrass yourselves further, Microsoft. But you managed. I shouldn't have underestimated you."
Great line Ben, hilarious 🙂
If anything, the next-gen consoles will in fact be easier than ever to compare specs, since both will be based on the same architecture, only the PS4 will more significantly more powerful.
Microsoft of course knows this, which is why there's no way for them to claim otherwise, all they have is the old 'specs don't matter' card…
With lower specs, more expensive hardware, a terrible name and,.. what else? You have to wonder who in their right mind will by an xbox next-gen…
Well.. if you really want to get technical, MS is just winding up a generation in which millions of XBox fans bought more then one console.
I weep for my country and its misplaced and somewhat blind love for the 360. With fans like that, of course hardware specs don't mean a thing.
Last edited by maxpontiac on 6/29/2013 12:32:27 AM
@maxpontiac SO TRUE SO TRUE!!!
"I weep for my country and its misplaced and somewhat blind love for the 360. With fans like that, of course hardware specs don't mean a thing."
Xbone with 50% less power than PS4 = another generation of mediocre multiplats that lag behind the console generations potential. Screw MS. So sick of them holding back games. Say what you will about Nintendo but at least say they didn't demand multiplats cater to their lesser specs at the expense of the PS3 last gen.
I believe it'll be more than 50%. Xbox already dedicated several gigs of memory for the Kinect camera thanks to the Kinect in each box. They rely on Cloud to stream part of game content to make up the lost in power. Now that it's not always on anymore, the Box is a mess. I doubt developers can even decent games in launch
yeah, not only that, but apparently (and this was a while ago) Microsoft was reported to have some sort of overheating issue with the Xbone due to the cheaper components to the PS4 that they put into their system. but they'll still send them out and have people buy 5-6 more consoles and send them off as "sales" just to stay ahead (if they ever get ahead this next gen.)
@White_Mocha that's a horrible thought, but it's probably true
Why do I think if the xbone had 50% more power than the PS4 M$ would make sure everyone on the planet knew about that?…
He mentioned something about "Sony will go out and be proud of their off-the-shelf parts, in our box, our guys have touched every single piece of it, we have optimised everything"
I'm sorry, what?! Mark Cerny has done several interviews detailing the customization they have done to the PS4's hardware, and it sounds like they are way ahead of the Xbone in terms of hardware optimization. AMD have even said that the Jaguar based CPU is customized specifically for the PS4, and some people have said that the Xbone's CPU might not be up to the PS4's standard because Sony got to AMD before MS did.
Ignorant prick…..
hey — it's all about riling up the fanboys to spew their nonsense some more. and the fact that MS is desperate after committing near-suicide over the past few months.
WOW! Can't wait for them to tell us what changes they made to the AA batteries that the controllers still use!
The truth is the SHEEP DON'T CARE.
did you even bother to read the quote?
he said comparing specs is meaningless because people dont know what their talking about.
thats why he said comparing specs is meaningless, because we dont know every single little part in each of these systems.
and we wont till they release, and then time after that!
hes not saying specs are meaningless themselves, in fact if you actually bothered to read the quote you would of seen he also said we believe our games and experiences will be every bit as good, if not better, technically.
next time when your quoting someone use the whole quote, not the part that suits you so you can go on another one of your typical BS fanboy rants!
People that already have access to the real specs have come out and said the PS4 is superior. We dont have to wait to see it ourselves. And word travels fast among gamers and others interested in buying one of the consoles.
What this guy said could definitely sway consumers. Almost like the "go buy a 360" quote did.
Nobody here needs you to translate English to English.
Your right in that he says specs are meaningless because we don't know what were talking about, but MS would only say this if they knew they were in trouble. You know if all the experts said the new Xbox was more powerful we would all hear it from MS, but it's the other way around. And of course he would say they can compete, and their games will be as good. Would you expect him to say otherwise?
He also says "So the whole numbers game – yeah, I've been following it online and it's like, we tried having that argument last time." They did and lost.
and
"I'd rather not even have the conversation, because it's not going to matter." More like because they know they will lose again.
If you read the whole article he pretty much tries to insult everyones intelligence, says numbers don't matter, and then finishes it by mentioning their pointless instant switching and the cloud. Then he giggles his keys and says LOOK A NEW CALL OF DUTY! Which is multi-plat, so……
no you dont.
you need me to tell the full story because someone likes just cherry picking just the bits that suit him.
thats not what he was talking about though, he was commenting on the silly fanboy wars.
developers still dont know what the exact final specs will be, dev kits arent finalized and nor is the cloud streaming service.
turn 10 said in a interview at E3 M$ hasent released final dev kits yet, and the cloud service there using for their driveatar features is not fully functioning yet.
once the systems have been out for a year and both manufactures have had a decent set of time to offer the best tools they can, and developers have had some time to filly optimize their engines and tools for the systems, then the silly comparisons can begin.
but not till then!
Last edited by ___________ on 6/29/2013 11:02:31 AM
I sure wish Ben would show "_________" the door. Sorry, but all he does is attack.
"developers still dont know what the exact final specs will be"
Blind a$$ troll! The only reason the PS4 has 8G of RAM is because the DEV's asked for more after they got their first run with the new system!
SONY has been working with them from the start. To make a machine that is easily optimized by the developer in order to bring the best experience to the gamer!
Last edited by PANICinc on 6/29/2013 2:03:45 PM
@_________ He was talking about how silly it is that 2 gens ago all they cared about was power, and now that they don't have the more powerful system they try to downplay the power angle. He was just making a point of how stupid it is that MS spins info to their liking without really thinking of what they've said before in the past.
@maxpontiac Don't be sorry, you're absolutely right. If he thinks we're all stupid and Ben is just some fanboy he can leave.
And I just realized I said giggles instead of jiggles. Was super tired when i wrote that.
@_________
So when Turn 10 mentioned that Microsoft hadn't given developers final dev kits, does this explain why Microsoft couldn't run their Xbox One games on anything besides overspeced PCs running Windows 7?
I don't think so.
I think Microsoft hasn't figured out yet how to run their unnecessarily complicated 3 OS set-up on the specs that are pretty well already set in stone, that is unless Microsoft is willing to push their launch back 6+ months to give the Xbox One better specs than it has.
And Microsoft isn't going to do that.
@JROD I think someone already said this here in a different article, but if they have to patch the system on the first day to take away the DRM doesn't that mean that the final hardware is already being produced? If not why couldn't they just change it before launch. And if the final hardware is out then why was it not on display at E3? You make a very good point. Something feels off and MS has a lot of explaining to do.
Errr.
I don't know how much you know about games console development, but manufacturing takes time.
For them to changes specs this late in the game would blow the release date into 2014.
They already have manufacturing delays apparently, with shipments of console components not happening until August, while the PS4 components are due to start shipping in mid-July.
And dude, your original comment was just you raging, you had no reason to say any of that. If you read the whole interview yourself you would see what he was getting at, and you can't really defend him for it.
LOL @___________
If there had every been a better time for "Umadbro?" I've yet to see it.
Get real, there are numerous sources to read about the power differences and developers coming forward to give the PS4 a bit of an edge in terms of raw computer power. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that a system using 3 SEPERATE OS's for different tasks and a handful of the APU dedicated RAM strictly to the kinect alone will be causing generally inferior games on the XBone due to a lack of RAW COMPUTING POWER. LOL! This is basic math of computer technology my friend. No one is claiming they will look like Sega Genesis games, just that XBone multiplats may cause other systems to suffer due to the lowest common denominator of the power equation (XBone) and that PS4 is more likely to have tighter feeling, acting and looking exclusives and multiplats. Mark Cerny recently revealed in an article I was reading the other day that "The time to triangle," (AKA the time for devlopers to get a solid base for a game to run on PS4) will be about 1-2 months going back to the exact time it would take developers on average in the PS1 era (this era was often heralded by developers for it's ease of productions and creative flow).
The more they try to dig themselves out the deeper the hole gets.
And apparently this guy has a terrible memory as well. 16 and 32 bit games never really competed. It was 32 and 64 bit consoles in the mid 90s that waged war.
If console specs don't matter, then why does MS refuse to list them with retailers?
Well, clearly MS is deflecting. They've learned you don't want to play check box with Sony. It's like playing chicken with an 18 wheeler with a pogo stick: pure folly. And even if you manage to get a one-up on them, Sony will focus on correcting whatever it is to make sure they aren't at any disadvantage.
MS said games are the focus. I'll have to agree at least, as of right now, they are working to make that a reality. E3 was a hell of a showing. Teaming with industry greats like Insomniac, Remedy, Crytek, and Swery65 shows commitment to bring great exclusive content. All of those have the ability to bring compelling software to the table. Saying otherwise just proves ignorance and willful blindness. The Xbox One, like its predecessors, will have some top notch exclusives. Maybe not a primary system, but an extremely capable secondary one.
I can give you 100 reasons why I disagree with you.
Which part, that Sony has more advantages and very little disadvantages, that usually don't remain, or that MS had teamed with some of the industry's brightest to bring great games to their console?
"Teamed with" seems like a purposefully sanitized way of saying "bought exclusive titles from".
I have a feeling that MS probably had to alter their initial E3 plans and show as many games as possible due to the cool response they received from gamers upon the Xbox One reveal. I'm sure some developers had to scramble to ready trailers or demos that initially didn't have to be ready until Gamescom.
How much left does MS have now? Will we see any new AAA titles from MS at Gamescom or will they all be kinect titles, and will they even show up for The Tokyo Game Show?
Simcoe,
I'll agree it's definitely a nicer way of saying 'purchased games', but that's not for any under-handed reason. I simply don't know how the process of getting a company to publish a game works. Does MS just back the Brink's truck up or does the developer go to them and pitch the idea? Does MS help with tech and any other sort of support or just leave the devs to fend for themselves? I feel f any game was a flat out bought exclusive, it definitely was Dead Rising 3. Even still it's not completely out of the realm of possibility that MS offered to publish the game early on knowing they needed something for the X1 and they didn't really have any studios to deliver.
As for what Gamescom and TGS may bring, I have the slightest clue. See, I can take Sony and Nintendo on pure faith that they will deliver awesome content for their consoles. But after the past three years, MS had to prove to me they were committed to bring some games. They did that. Before, E3, a lot of people were saying, "They only have Kinect titles and Halo and Gears." They showed different. Now it's "Well, that's all they got then!" As, I've said before, I want MS to have great games and be competitive in this industry. The competition is great for the business. And the great games? Why in Jupiter's Thunder would I NOT want a company to produce great titles?
KidPrestable –
I apologize for not being clear but I don't know how you can be so positive about Microsoft's conference when everything good they did was matched and surpassed by Sony's E3 showing.
My "100 reasons" was a reference to the one hundred dollar bills that separate the PS4 from XBone. To further enforce my point watch the crowd reactions to each of the price points on the PS4 and XBone. MS has doomed themselves to last place yet again.
Yeah, Xbox One has great exclusives.
…..provided basically all you want to play is shooters.
Moe,
"Teamed with" just sounded funny to me, just thought it seems like an interesting choice of words!
I really do believe that any company with a billion dollar product that is about to be released has everything about the product, including it's introduction, and ongoing marketing all very carefully planned and mapped out right up to and following it's release. I believe MS got caught off guard with reaction to the Xbox One reveal and the whole DRM thing over the past few weeks.
I'm thinking, these deals with developers would have been signed anywhere in the last 12 months. With some developers/studios, especially those that are owned or have existing relationships with publishers, it could very well be that a giant cheque was cut to secure exclusivity (whether it be a true exclusive or "console" exclusive).
It's no secret that a AAA game can cost a lot of money to make. Studios may spend one-two years (or more) on a game before any money at all could be earned back. I know, from many developer podcast's I've listened to, that the biggest stress developers had while making a game (destined for console) was finding a publisher that could bring that game to market, so that they could earn back all the money that they've spent. Now it's my belief that with a lot of independent developers (ie. those not owned by a publisher), and especially at the beginning of a console cycle (when the install base is very low), could very well be looking for any partner that is: A, willing to publish their game; (and perhaps) B, offers an advance of cash; and C, guarantees a minimum number of units (games) sold (ie. cash), enough for which the studio will either break even on development costs or possibly even make a small profit.
Now, I'm not sure what MS's policy is in terms of second and third-party studios but as Mark Cerny recently talked about in a presentation at Gamelab, it used to be that Sony's first-party studios were always competing against third-party studios in terms of sales and game quality. But for the PS3, Sony learned that they needed to share their technical expertise with third-party developers. I do suggest watching that presentation by Mark Cerny (if you have 47 minutes) he's a really interesting guy (search "Cerny gamelab" on youtube). So what I'm trying to say with this paragraph is I'd like to think that these studios that have signed on with MS will also be getting some technical help, considering this is the start of a new generation of hardware.
so forza 5, dead rising 3, and project spark are shooters are they?
interesting.
Dead Rising has been crap for an entire generation, Forza is a joke to all those who have even the slightest clue about auto racing (Gran Turismo beats it in every possible way), and Project Spark is essentially the only game that holds any interest for me whatsoever.
As compared to the dozens of exclusives already confirmed – and soon to be confirmed – for the PS4.
Ryse, D4, Below, and Killer Instinct are shooters, too? And, though a TPS, Quantum break looks interesting as hell, from a proven developer. Remedy has never made a bad game. Quantum Break is the system seller for me. Oh wait…ahem…Those games are CRAP!!! They always will be CRAP!! Anyone who finds even a modicum of enjoyment in them must live in a crap filled house of crap, with a bed of crap, and fridge full of crap, and must like crapcakes for breakfast, crapwiches for lunch and Maryland crapcakes for dinner! lol. Dead Rising is crap just like Castlevania: LOS, Alpha Protocol, and Just Cause 2 are crap, yes? Forza is inferior in EVERY way? Come on. I know that's not true AND I can change my own oil! It's the blue stuff that goes in the front of my engine, right?
Dozens of confirmed exclusives for the PS4…um huh?. Where are you pulling that number from, bud? I shudder to think lol. Just ribbing you, man. But, seriously, unless you want to redefine what 'exclusive' means and you're counting DCUO(really?), Warframe, and a bunch of timed exclusives like you did the last time. List the games that are known exclusive to the PS4, as of right now, are not appearing on another system. And it sure ain't in the 'dozens'. And, yes, awesome games from awesome Sony first party devs are coming and are poised do define excellence and innovation in this next generation. No one is silly enough to say otherwise. The PS4 is an absolute essential purchase for any discerning gamer. But those X1 games do interest me enough to own both. Now, Maxpontiac can weep for another poor misguided soul.
Last edited by n/a on 6/30/2013 4:11:31 PM
You keep asking to be embarrassed, and I'm not sure why. I pointed you in the direction of an editorial that proved Gran Turismo's obvious superiority over Forza. If you just think we're all biased morons who have written at this site, then I'll point you in the direction of others, too. By the way, the creator of that franchise, Kazunori Yamauchi, races often. He only works with top minds in the RACING industry. Professional racers use the GT simulator to train. Forza is what again…? Oh yes, a video game. A blend of simulator and Need for Speed for the masses, so they'll think they're buying a real driving game.
And I'm assuming the "blue stuff" is a joke.
All of Microsoft's exclusives are and will always be action-based, for the most part, because that's the crowd to which they mostly cater. They've shown their hand. We all know that another Uncharted is coming, we know a God of War is coming, we know a new Gran Turismo is coming, we know Quantic Dream's new game is coming (whether it's called The Dark Sorcerer or not), and we know Media Molecule (LittleBigPlanet) is working on a few confirmed exclusives.
So let me get this straight- I can't count them because they haven't been officially announced? Seriously? As if we don't already know that those first-party studios will bring such games? That we're all fairly certain Naughty Dog will continue The Last Of Us story arc on the PS4? Why can't we compare the first-party studios of Sony to that of Microsoft? Wouldn't THAT be funny? It'd be downright hilarious.
Toss in Killzone: Shadow Fall, inFamous: Second Son, DriveClub, Knack and The Order: 1886 (I can use those, right?), and it's not a close competition. In terms of exclusives, it never has been and it never will be. Go by genres again? TPS? Nothing beats Uncharted and at this point, The Last Of Us. Open-world action/adventure? inFamous. What about all-out action like God of War? Anything like that on Xbox? Or how about the games like Knack, that are for everyone and adopt a Ratchet & Clank-type style? Then of course there are all the indie developers that have scores of confirmed exclusives for the PS4, which many conveniently forget.
The only part I might agree on is that the Xbox One might be a little LESS of a joke than the Xbox or Xbox 360 in regards to exclusives, even though it will inevitably be eclipsed by Sony's first-party studios. With The Last Of Us and Beyond: Two Souls this year, that puts an exclamation point on a generation that ripped apart the 360 in every possible way, in every genre (again, in terms of exclusives). Innovation, diversity, and overall quality; nothing can compare to PlayStation exclusives.
I played every Halo and every Gears of War. Not one was completed with the game crashing at least once, not one was completed without seeing a DRE, and not one did anything even remotely new. A few JRPGs at the start of the generation (which Microsoft completely abandoned after the experiment failed and they still couldn't sell an Xbox in Japan) doesn't mean much to me. I'm glad I played Lost Odyssey and Alan Wake. Beyond that…I mean, give me a break. The Xbox One isn't showing me anything different.
Oh, and Dead Rising sucks because the games have sucked. Might want to check the review scores for that. You can keep that series, thanks. I've got The Last Of Us. And you can whine about the latter all you want…me-thinks the only reason you do so is because it totally decimates ANYTHING that has ever been on the 360. Like, ever. As do many PS3 exclusives, actually.
Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 6/30/2013 4:24:22 PM
Ben, when have I ever disagreed with you about how awesome Sony exclusives were? I've said twice, and now a third time, that we all know AMAZING games are coming from Sony to the PS4. Never once did I dispute or disagree with that certainty. You wrote dozens of "confirmed" exclusives. I'm just saying that's not true. Unless you are trying to redefine the word 'exclusive' as much as you seem to be trying to redefine 'confirmed'. 🙂
I agree that Sony will eclipse MS in terms of exclusives. If they aren't already since I haven't played games on either system.They have an incredibly deep a stable of wonderfully talented developers. I've never ever disagreed with you on that, either. You're preaching to the choir. Especially, on the absolute splendor and greatness that will be Beyond: Two Souls.
Let's not compare PS3 and 360. Not that the 360 is superior because it definitely isn't but the truth is that you haven't even played the games you'll run through the mill. I have. I own them as I pretty much own every PS3 exclusive, from Heavy Rain and Uncharted 2 all the way down to Genji: Dawn of the Samurai(underrated in my opinion) and Cross Edge(underrated, too). You have your hands full with this job and your day to day life. I'm not faulting you for that. But, when I list games that are good, you're just going to say "They're crap" as eloquent as you can but, in reality, you don't know. So it's pointless, yes?
Excuse me, but what games haven't I played that I 'run through the mill"?
I don't call ANY game "crap" definitively unless I've played it. I'll suggest it is based on review scores but I won't make that claim on my own. I have played all the so-called elite games on the 360. It's why I initially owned the system, of course. What makes you think I didn't play them?
Microsoft needs to sit with Naught Dog and they need to get slapped some sense into them. The Mythbusters confirmed that some sense can be slapped into ya'.