Well damn, I wasn't "raptured." Guess I didn't believe in it enough. …cool, that means I get to play more L.A. Noire !

Fresh new IPs vs. awesome sequels

I have a ton of respect for Platinum Games and their continued drive to produce refreshing new titles , and I further applaud Sega's accommodation as a publisher. I also agree that there are too many sequels and spin-offs today. However, very much unlike the movie industry, our franchises tend to get better and better with time. Of course, most of that is due to the ever-increasing quality of the technology, so of course we can always do more with every new iteration of a particular series title. On top of which, if we look at the greatest games of all time, basically all of them are sequels or at least spawned sequels that are – arguably, of course – better than the original. Doesn't a game like Vanquish deserve a sequel?

I mean, do we really want to miss out on Uncharted 2 (and Uncharted 3 )? What about any purists who would've just said, "eh, leave Uncharted the way it is; it's great so try something else now." The vast majority of the best games every year are sequels or follow-ups or boast familiar names. That being said, if we move too far in one direction, we eventually abandon originality. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we need a good balance…if that's attainable.

…and how hard should our games really be?

There was a time when I was amongst the hardcore gamers who complained about interactive experiences getting too casual; too mainstream…i.e., too easy. But I also wasn't the biggest fan of those controller-snapping games of yesteryear; essentially, arcade games that were never designed to be beaten. Furthermore, as I get older, gaming becomes more and more about relaxation. I still get that good old-fashioned sense of accomplishment upon completing a specific challenge, but I'm just not that interested in killing myself to complete a certain level, or something. This is why I'm a little leery about the new Ridge Racer Unbounded , considering what developer Bugbear had to say about gamers wanting tougher experiences . I don't necessarily disagree, but how far will they take it…?

Again, I'm talking about striking a balance. Some will say games have gotten too easy but I don't necessarily side with that viewpoint. For the most part, I find most games to be well-paced with sufficient challenges; enough to keep me entertained, at any rate. No, I don't really need that hair-tearing difficulty anymore. In reality, I don't think we ever "needed" it. We just got used to it.

Personal gaming update

Obviously, it's all about L.A. Noire , which really is one of my favorite games of the year. People can make a variety of complaints concerning the control and driving but in all honesty, I really don't care enough to complain. But I made all that clear in the review; also be on the lookout for my video commentary, which should go up very soon. I kind of want to savor the rest of this game so I'll take my time; in the meantime, I'll see if I can finish Final Fantasy IV on the PSP and try to get a Puzzle Agent review done (now that the PSN is back).

I had plenty of fun with MotorStorm: Apocalypse , by the way. It's recommended if you're an off-road racing fan. Lastly, be on the lookout for new announcements and new features…

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TheCanadianGuy
TheCanadianGuy
9 years ago

i'm really liking Noire. personally though i'm finding it a tad repetitive. but for the most love it.

Snaaaake
Snaaaake
9 years ago

I fine with either new IP or sequels.
As long as the game offers fresh experience for me.
I'm ok with Bayonetta 2 but I certainly don't mind a new over-the-top action game from Kamiya-sama.

And we gamers don't want harder games, we want challenging games.
Not to the point of frustration but only requires us to start rolling our brain to solve it.

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
9 years ago

Give me more RPGs please. I'm tired of these action oriented games.

Riku994
Riku994
9 years ago

Legend of Dragoon sequel/anything to do with it would be nice…

LittleBigMidget
LittleBigMidget
9 years ago

The Witcher 2.

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
9 years ago

I have it, first one was amazing. However I was talking about console RPGs. I prefer playing RPGs on consoles.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

Amen on that!

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
9 years ago

The first 2 you listed are shooters, one a 3rd person shooter and the other a FPS with a mediocre 3rd person option.

Dragon Age is an Action RPG.

Lawless SXE
Lawless SXE
9 years ago

The thing is, sequels offer a chance for developers to refine their formula, and that's great, but new IPs give them a chance to experiment, incorporating entirely different mechanics into the same *type* of game they've done before. The same can be done with sequels, but runs the risk of bringing the prestige of the series down and consequently alienating the fanbase. FF and RE spring to mind as recent examples.

I like me some difficulty in games, as long as it doesn't stem from cheapness. Too many games fall into this problem, but some manage to nail it. Unbounded would interest me, but that name… I can't handle it.

Personal Update:
Having difficulty finding reasons to start reading in Paradise, even though I really want to.
Playing through inFamous in preparation for the sequel, though will play L.A. Noire between the two. Also getting very slowly through FFIV.
Picking up my new car on Thursday, and I'm excited as all hell for it. Joined the forums earlier in the week, and have also joined TitanReviews as a writer along with a couple of the other members of this site. Don't worry, I wouldn't dream of abandoning PSXE!
Peace.

Temjin001
Temjin001
9 years ago

New IP or Sequel? I dunno, I just want great games. I imagine a balance of both is important. I wouldn't mind seeing a Bayonetta or Vanquish sequel, but even then, I wouldn't mind seeing what else Platinum Games has up their sleeves. Honestly, Anarchy Reigns doesn't look that good to me, but I'll reserve judgement, they've earned it.

Harder games is what "gamers" want?
I suppose it goes without say that the more dedicated gaming crowd doesn't want to be playing games with training wheels. But isn't that what difficulty settings are for?
I don't know what to think of BugBear yet. I'll reserve judgement, but I'm a little apprehensive. Maybe they got all kinds of mad skills from porting Sega Rally Revo to PSP =p

PGU: This last week has been all about Motorstorm and Sega Rally. I have like 77% trophies in Motorstorm. DOes that make me an 'elite gamer'?
Yes … yes, it does … Like a specialist =p (can anyone call the line?)

But I still cannot resume an online session after running a race without getting a server error issue. This problem doesn't happen at all with the "eliminator" game type. Maybe I should write Evolution a concern.
Aside from that, I have all of these great games sitting around waiting to be played.
Demon's Souls, Disc 2 of Lost Odyssey, Fable 2, Batman game, Tomb Raider Underworld (well, maybe not great)
I'm sure there's others. BUt I don't even know if I feel like starting them. All I can think about right now for gaming is Infamous 2. I got my pre-order in and here I wait patiently holding up fingers, tips extended and touching like unto a tent. Waiting, waiting, and waiting. Oh, yes, the Samurai sword shall be mine.

Riku994
Riku994
9 years ago

I hope Dark Souls puts Demon's Souls to shame. I can beat the first chapter without dying, I don't wanna be able to do that… And I certainly don't want someone to beat it in under an hour.

LegendaryWolfeh
LegendaryWolfeh
9 years ago

Dude that's fu**ing ridiculous, there's no game that needs to be harder than demons souls. Sure, awsome, YOU can beat the first chapter without dying, and SURE people CAN do speed runs of the game (this can be done in ANY game after enough playing), but the difficulty of the game was such a turn off to most people and what kept so many more people from getting it. But just because SOME people can do these things, doesn't mean the game is easy, it just means you've played it so much you've gotten used to it or you've got it down to memory where everything is.

Riku994
Riku994
9 years ago

I like the difficulty, and a lot of others did too. I wasn't trying to brag or anything, I'm just saying if they're trying to make it as hard as possible, I don't wanna be able to beat a level just by remembering where everything is, I wanna work for it every time.

LittleBigMidget
LittleBigMidget
9 years ago

I'm playing Mortal Kombat and the Game of the Year…InFamous 2.

And am I the only one that thought Vanquish was awful?

Riku994
Riku994
9 years ago

You are not.

Lawless SXE
Lawless SXE
9 years ago

Beta?

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
9 years ago

Yes, you're the only one who thought Vanquish was awful.

karneli lll
karneli lll
9 years ago

Vanquish is not awful…its painfully awful

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

Explain please this concept of Vanquish being awful. The demo was far from awful, and it was merely a demo. The game would have to do a lot wrong, compared to the Demo, to earn a ranking of awful.

Beamboom
Beamboom
9 years ago

Many seem to have only two alternatives on their rating scale: "Awsome" or "Awful". The other day I read someone calling DA2 "horrible". This is why user ratings are so polarized on Play, Amazon etc: It's either top or bottom score. One or Five stars.

Vanquish never was "awful", as in < 5 of 10. I can understand those who think Vanquish was a bit "too much" cause I am one of those, but the quality of Vanquish caught me by surprise. It's smooth, responsive, original, challenging, it's a darn good action game.
It may not be your cup of tea, but that does not automatically mean it deserves to be labelled "awful".

I'd love a sequel by the way, *if* they include campaign coop play. 🙂


Last edited by Beamboom on 5/22/2011 3:46:01 AM

Temjin001
Temjin001
9 years ago

I've got to stick up for Vanquish. I was lent the game for a short time, and I absolutely loved it. I didn't finish it but I did get quite far. It's definitely on my hit list for my game collection, and I would no doubt want a sequel.

I really do prefer the faster paced cover and fire play of Vanquish over Gears.
Really, if it wasn't for Gears's awesome art design and generally real impressive looking presentation, I'd probably have little to no interest in the series.

Claire C
Claire C
9 years ago

Harder games? Yes, but not cheaper games. I hate breaking controllers. :_(

I'm playing a few things. =D

On chapter 8 of Final Fantasy XIII. I love the battle system, I really like most the characters (Snow is annoying and Vanille is actually awesome), I like the story, and I miss the exploration.

Stopped FFXIII to play L.A. Noire and I'm only halfway through. I love it. If I had one complaint it would be that I wish Cole's personal life was explored more and that the story wasn't limited only to what's involved with solving cases (minus the flashbacks).

Also in-between those is Chrono Trigger on DS. Never played it before. I'm not too far in, but I smiled from ear to ear during the 'trial' segement early on where the chancellor used your previous actions against you.

Claire,
=^.^=


Last edited by Claire C on 5/21/2011 11:12:27 PM

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
9 years ago

Why do you like the battle system in FFXIII?

Claire C
Claire C
9 years ago

I like the strategy involved with the paradigm shifts and the way you control the flow of battle without having to input every single action yourself. I like the idea of 'staggering' opponents, as well as all the other little nuances that add to the battle. It feels like a nice evolution from the standard turn-based combat. That's what I think anyway. 😉

BIGRED15
BIGRED15
9 years ago

Limited vertigo:
Eventually you'll have dark souls and mass effect 3 to delve into. Those sound like they'd be well worth the wait

Harder games? interesting topic because I know what you mean. The difficulty of games have started to dwindle. The pace has almost overtaken difficulty so eventually it'll become harder and harder to find hard games. Imo, one of the toughest games ive played in the last year is Gran Turismo 5. I tend to need a lot more focus when playing that versus playing something like crysis

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
9 years ago

I don't consider Dark Souls or the Mass Effect series RPGs. Dark Souls like Demon's Souls is an action game with hints of RPG elements. Mass Effect is a third person shooter.

Regardless I will try Dark Souls on consoles and will once again enjoy MassEffect3 on the PC side like I did the first 2 since it's rather buggy on consoles and I prefer the controls on the PC.

Beamboom
Beamboom
9 years ago

No come on, me2 is not a 3rd person shooter! All because of the lack of item micromanagement?
It's still a rpg indeed. Micromanagement may be a requirement for you, but to call everything else "not a rpg" is unfair to them, really.

Beamboom
Beamboom
9 years ago

There are a few rather categorical opinions that has become a kind of established rules around here. Like exclusive titles, everything japanese, etc. You'll get used to it, eventually. 😉


Last edited by Beamboom on 5/22/2011 6:48:31 AM

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
9 years ago

Beam,

MassEffect is a 3rdperson shooter with RPG elements. "Dumbing down" RPG elements in order to reach a broader crowd tacked onto the gameplay of a shooter does not make an RPG.

360gamer,

Just because I feel a game is falsely labeled does not mean I will enjoy it any less. I've enjoyed both ME games on the PC and I've enjoyed them for what they are. Shooters with rpg elements similar to the recent Fallout games.

If you've noticed others sharing my opinion on here it's most likely they are older gamers (I'm 29) and thus are knowledgeable on what RPGs should be before companies started to dumb them down for the masses.

Beamboom
Beamboom
9 years ago

I'm 42, kid. And what you are saying is just a 20ish kid's foolish attempts of "revealing" stuff. Of course they are rpgs. Even a 50 year old could tell you that.


Last edited by Beamboom on 5/22/2011 11:06:13 AM

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
9 years ago

Beam,

You didn't counter anything I said other than calling me a kid and listing your age. If you think I'm wrong than explain yourself.

Beamboom
Beamboom
9 years ago

I'm responding to your claim about those "knowledgeable on what RPGs should be" and your attempt of winning the argument that way.
I'm sorry but I just don't like those kind of methods to dominate a discussion. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy My brothers. And you will know My name is the Lord when I lay My vengeance upon thee.


Last edited by Beamboom on 5/22/2011 12:29:23 PM

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
9 years ago

That comment wasn't even directed towards you but it still holds up. It's well known that gamers of this generation that for one reason or another haven't played games of the past may be ignorant to the fact that some game genres have been "dumbed down".

If you honestly think games like FFXIII, Fallout3/NewVegas, or the Mass Effect series can be called RPGS within the same context as FFIV, Chrono Trigger, or the Dragon Quest series you're crazy.

Also when a majority of your post is a quote from Pulp Fiction/The Bible it becomes obvious you're unable to argue with your own words.

Sad.

Beamboom
Beamboom
9 years ago

Oh geez it was a joke. And it's not from the bible – that's a myth. It's only in Pulp Fiction. Cheer up, dude.

It was obviously not directed towards me but the "all the grown ups think like I do" sort of arguments are just so… Dull. Sorry. Especially when you're not even 30 yourself. See? Age is all about perspective.

So, to your point: I agree that they are dumbed down, and that is indeed sad. But to NOT call it RPGs is just plain and simple WRONG. And no matter how many grown ups who say otherwise, it remains wrong. Call them dumb, worthless, childs play, but they still belong to the rpg genre.

… And I got three entire schools of 12 year olds to prove my point!

(This post is guaranteed without quotes. (C)Beamy 2011)


Last edited by Beamboom on 5/22/2011 12:53:13 PM

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
9 years ago

Actually a majority of it is from the bible, so once again you're wrong.

I never said anything close to "all the grown ups think like I do". You're not even correctly reading what I write, no wonder you're unable to properly argue my points.

When certain gameplay elements start to take over (action/shooter) than games like Fallout3 and Mass Effect no longer are RPGs but rather action/shooter games with RPG elements.

Beamboom
Beamboom
9 years ago

If you want to discuss argument techniques I'd advice you to try and be a tad less aggressive. You come across as this very angry, aggressive young man that do not really want to discuss anything, only state his opinions as facts.

On topic: When the entire business classify them as rpgs, every review I've read do the same, it's classified as rpgs on this site, well then you have to be pretty darn stubborn to insist otherwise.
A slight touch of humbleness would suit you, really.

(And a majority of your words are too found in the bible – if not in that order. Are you… *ghasp*… Jesus II?)


Last edited by Beamboom on 5/22/2011 1:13:46 PM

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

Vanquish probably deserved a Sequel Ben. I think it'd be sheer folly to suggest that Uncharted and Uncharted 2 did not deserve sequels. That said, I like a developer who focuses on the new and innovative. Ideally though, they should incorporate a team specifically to work on sequels to games that merit them. The best of both worlds so to speak, so that the original creators can assist with a sequel, but also be free to work on new and innovative titles.

Regarding how hard games should be, I think that there is a distinction between games that are hard to master, and games that are simply hard to beat. When a designer wants to make a game hard to beat, they can either carefully build a system that allows the player to learn it, to master it and to win using that skill; or they can allow the AI to cheat. That controller snapping frustration that comes when the game's characters react before your move even begins in a fighting game, or when the laws of physics that your character obeys are suddenly optional for the game, or when it's simply impossible to win, without a million retries and that 1 in a million possibility that the random number generator finally gets 665432 instead of the 999,999 other possible values. Games should be harder, but they should not cheat. Games should have an 'easy' mode for people who simply want to play for relaxation, and harder settings for gamers who want that extra challenge, but no matter how hard the setting, it needs to be possible to beat the game with sufficient skill and effort.

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
9 years ago

I agree. I think the games we grew up on used AI cheats and implemented absurd requirements in order to complete stages. Fester's Quest was soooooooooooooooooooo hard.

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
9 years ago

Fester's Quest wasn't hard. That sh** was CHEAP.

…..not that we didn't have fun trying to deal with it. 😉

kraygen
kraygen
9 years ago

I would agree we need a mix of sequels and new IP's. If we only had one or the other it just wouldn't be right. Some stories need more than one game, personally I like ongoing stories. However at the same time, some stories are short and shouldn't be continued just for the sake of having a sequel.

As for the difficulty of games, I kinda thought that was the point of having a difficulty setting. Allows people who want to relax and enjoy the game for story and gameplay to put it on easy and do just that, enjoy. It also allows the sadists to put the game on uber death mode and rip their hair out trying to slay that final boss.

PGU: Playing a little Ar Tonelico, but also playing through Infamous again, good and bad, to refresh the story in my mind so I'm primed and ready for Infamous 2.

Ar Tonelico is definitely one of those niche games, it's kinda amusing and somewhat disturbing that combat consists of convincing your female teammates to strip their clothes off to become stronger.
I'm not very far into yet, it's not really right up my alley, but it's showing a lot of promise and at it's core it's got a lot of old school rpgness to it.

As for Infamous, well it's just as awesome as I remember and every ability comes in handy for certain things. Getting around is so much fun, especially once you get the hang of the rail grinding and static thrusters, now that's my kind of fast travel.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

I've been playing deeper into Hyperdimension Neptunia this week, and although I think I prefer Ar Tonelico Qoga – convincing fictional characters to remove clothing to perform better isn't exactly high on my list of moral offense (but I understand the point) – Neptunia isn't horrible either. The single biggest issue with Neptunia is the healing system. However the dungeons are short and your health resets in-between dungeons, so it evens out. However, Ar Tonelico has a far deeper story (as far as I can see). So personally, I prefer that, simply for the story and more consistent characters. However, both are clearly niche games.

If I remember correctly, Ben reviewed both and Qoga did better, I think that's about right, but on an absolute scale neither are in the same class as White Knight.

kraygen
kraygen
9 years ago

It's one thing if they leave the age of the girls up in the air, but it specifically lists them as being under the age of 18, so that's why I said it's a little disturbing, granted the male characters in the game are mostly teenagers as well.

I haven't played Hyperdimension Neptunia yet, it'll come after Ar Tonelico. I think I'll probably enjoy them both, but I'd definitely agree that they are nowhere near White Knight.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

Three things about character age.

1) Culturally, not every country has the same age of consent.
2) In Japan, the age of consent has historically been quite low by western standards, although I believe that the accepted norm and local legislation in Japan has raised the age of consent to an age more acceptable to western moral guardians.
3) The characters are not human, completely fictional and entirely from 'another world' so to speak. Rather like Kes in Star Trek Voyager their chronological age could be very young in human terms, but that doesn't mean that they are not physically mature by their own culture's standards.

This discussion can veer very quickly into territory that no one wants to tread (well, I'm sure that there are some in this world that would tread there, but I suspect that neither you nor I would.

To give some context here, when I grew up in the UK, the age of 16 was the age of consent and pretty much the age of adulthood. There were a few things that remained until 18 and 21, such as drinking alcohol. Driving didn't start until 17, but at 16, you were considered adult enough to make your own decisions. So much so that at least 3 national daily newspapers, and several regional newspapers carried daily topless pictures on the infamous 'page 3'. The models in these papers were often as young as 16 years old. It got even better when newsprint went color in the 90's… 😉

At the end of the day, if the characters in a game are in their mid-to late teens, it becomes very ambiguous as to whether there is a problem.

And now, I shall prepare for the downvotes since I know that many will have a hair-trigger reaction to such thoughts.

Dreno
Dreno
9 years ago

Well ben, I wasn't raptured either. And it seems as if the psxe community wasn't either. So I suppose ill drink a beer or two for it anyways.

Pgu : STILL playing wkc ( can't get enough ) and I'm only @ 44% on its trophies. Its okay though, cause I never really was much of a trophie whore. Not that there's anything wrong with it of course. But ill keep playing until wkc2 comes out, than ill replay the first one to see what all they changed in it and then continue on to wkc2.

But, other than my pgu, I'm awaiting fr a call from lowes to find out if I passed my drug test. Hopefully ill get job #3 and can leave my 1 day 5 hour a week job at 7-11.

Can't wait for the toys r us dc to open up out here so I can apply for that and can start my college classes.

Oh and happy re-beginning of the world to everyone !

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
9 years ago

Even the most diehard Trophy whore is no match for WKC. That game's requirements for Trophy completion are ridiculous.

BTW this whole rapture thing is annoying. It's sad to see how many people actually believed in it. Humans can be very stupid. We laugh at our children for believing in Santa but then we grow up and create adult versions.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

@LV,

True, and I should know, I threw over 300 hours at that bloody game. I still enjoy it, but you soon begin to realize that to get the Plat, you need to put in about 1000 hours.

MyWorstNightmar
MyWorstNightmar
9 years ago

I am sorry to hear that 1000 hour fact regarding WKC. If you put 300 hours into that game, you should be rewarded with a Plat.

Frankly, I think any game's Plat should be attainable with 100 hours of playtime. That shows a devotion to the game, and a gamer should be rewarded for devoting that much time to one game.

If 1000 hours give or take a few hundred (lol) is true, then, that reaks of a developer making a statement about their opinion of how absurd trophies are. My opinion of course, but what other conclusion could one come up with?

I still plan on playing the game, I've been waiting until WKC2 comes out so I can get both games on 1 disc. But hearing that you have to put so many hours into the game really makes me second guess if it is worth the effort. Being a husband, and father of 2 definately makes you look at gaming differently.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

@MyWorst,

It's definitely 1000 give or take a couple of hundred. Actually I've read several people saying that they platinum'd but it took in the order of 1500 hours. It's really nuts that any game requires that much playtime to platinum. I mean I've mastered all the skills, rebirthed a many times as you can and maxed out the skill points, I leveled up in my adventuring guild rank to level 8 and got my georama to level 7 as needed to get the georama armor items. All that is left is the grind to obtain every possible item drop, and the ingredients necessary to make literally every binding recipe that there is. That grind is what takes the additional 700-1000 hours, and to be honest, it's just not worth it.

Lord carlos
Lord carlos
9 years ago

I find myself smiling alot while playing La noire.
Its an amazing experience,highly recommend by me your resident sith lord.

PGU:Operation flashpoint red river,Heavy rain & L.A. NOIRE

Dreno
Dreno
9 years ago

@ limitedvertigo

i hear ya on the wkc trophy list, from what ive come to understand, its nuckin futs to get the plat, oh well.

and as for the rapture thing, i was just havin fun with it. besides, if not for this guy camping makin a prediction it would have been someone else. its always gonna be around. now whiether it happens or not,i couldnt tell you.

but damn… was i hoping for a zombie apocolypse….