With PlayStation Move mere weeks away and Microsoft Kinect ready to drop before the end of the year, I've been thinking a lot more about how how gamers from an older generation may never, regardless of motion-sensing advances, adopt this new style.

At first, I thought maybe it was little more than clinging to the past. After all, as much as we all hate to admit it, nostalgia plays a significant role in how we view our entertainment, especially in regards to an industry that has grown right along with us. It's why I will still say Super Mario Bros. is one of the greatest games of all time when in fact, it's entirely irrational to compare it to the games of today, which in truth, represent entirely different experiences. We're getting closer and closer to interactive movies and really, things are so different, it's senseless and unfair to compare and contrast over big generational gaps.

However, after analyzing it a bit more, I realized it goes beyond this. It's in how we define our entertainment; not so much in how much we enjoyed our innocent childhoods. For instance, while multiplayer gaming has been around for quite some time, it's just not something I can get into. I understand the appeal; I've done it with multiple games and multiple genres (and I have to do it for the sake of reviews), but I will never put a great multiplayer experience above a great single-player experience in my personal hierarchy. And this is simply because I identify gaming as a solitary activity; it has proven to be almost a form of therapy over the years, I like nothing more than being alone with an unbelievable, memorable game.

Now, it used to only center on RPGs but I've branched out since then. So it's not like I refuse to adopt new ideas and I always love innovation in this industry. I honestly hope Move and Kinect will be great fun for all who sign on for the ride but no matter how good it is, I can't equate that type of interactive entertainment with what I believe in my heart to be "video games." I also don't believe I'm the only one. This isn't to say Move and Kinect will fail; I believe they're intriguing enough for the older and the hardcore to give 'em a try. I'm merely saying that some people, myself included, will never supplant the traditional form of gaming on their personal entertainment hierarchies.

In short, it's one of the common human traits that can often be deemed a weakness: you really can't teach an old dog new tricks. Or maybe you can, but for some reason, he'll always like the old trick(s) better.

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OPHIDIAN
OPHIDIAN
10 years ago

I still don't think Move or Kinect are intended for the harcore gamer.

They are overdue attempts by Sony and Microsoft to steal the Wii's thunder.

godsman
godsman
10 years ago

I almost hated FPS. With the Move I'll most likely get Killzone 3 and Socom 4. It's like the gap between hardcore and casual.

SmokeyPSD
SmokeyPSD
10 years ago

I think this opinion is pretty closeminded. In the end move is just a different interface. It's only limit is the developer using it. I can already imagine a crime scene in 1st person and I'm observing the dark area with a flashlight. like Norman Jayden only even more immersive. Not a shooter, just plain old detective work.

Alienange
Alienange
10 years ago

You mean we'll finally get Ace Detective on the PS3?

Qubex
Qubex
10 years ago

Lol Alienange!!

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

Beamboom
Beamboom
10 years ago

@SmokeyPSD: I totally agree. While I do follow Ben's logic I think that Move – *if* it is accurate enough – is just an evolution of a controller. Back in the old days we had a joystick with one or two buttons. Now it's two sticks and 14 buttons and six-axis controls. Quite a step from the "old school", when you think of it. And a traditional stick is based on movement, just like the Sony Move – it's still a stick just moved differently. That's why I think Sony's solution is superior to the MS technology. We need something to hold on to… *That's* oldschool to me!


Last edited by Beamboom on 8/28/2010 4:48:43 AM

IronFace2
IronFace2
10 years ago

Move is for fat gamers who dont go out and stuff.
Im not fat so I dont need one. Im better off with a regular duallshock 3. And yeah… Im an oldschool gamer.

Qubex
Qubex
10 years ago

IronFace2, no need to discriminate against FAT people… I have seen "larger than life" characters moving just fine when excited… maybe the Move controller will move them them to lose weight and be more healthy.

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

Mounce
Mounce
10 years ago

@OPHIDIAN – I can easily say Move could be leaned towards the Hardcore, all you need is people who aren't involved with Nintendo, and those with a creative enough mind who don't make family-games or shovel-ware, again, I cannot express how awesome a game like Demons' Souls would be with fully-fucking implemented motion controls with your sword, swinging your arms trying to kill a demon or creature in a game as difficult and fun and demanding as THAT game. THAT is a prime definition of motion controls being put to good use for a Hardcore game.

Most of all to what I must express annoyingly….You still can't ignore the fact that makes you sound EXTREMELY stupid, no offense, that EVERYONE, especially Nintendo fanboys, always say the same thing but the reality of the PS Move has been in development since PS2 days and around 2002 and such, revealed publically with games that had games similar to that of the 360 too. Just the fact that the device was shown 2-4 years BEFORE the Wii-mote was unveiled. So I am sick and tired of people saying 'Sony just dun did dat Move controllar to steal Wii thundar!1!" Cause it's absolutely untrue for the most part.

It's been around longer than anyone chooses to realize. Youtube videos are everywhere documenting it from long ago. Sony perhaps were more engaged to push the developers of the Move controller to tell them they want it out for PS3 to combat the Wii as a goal as soon as they saw the direction Wii came to exist as, but Move wasn't created because of the Wii. This is why I am, with logic, going to thumb you down and facepalm.

Period.


Last edited by Mounce on 8/28/2010 5:04:06 PM

Underdog15
Underdog15
10 years ago

@Mounce

Could there not be a more civil way to voice your opinion? Try to pretend there isn't a giant protective wall called "the internet" between the two of you.

I agree with some of your points, but still, PSXextreme regulars take pride in the fact that people can discuss topics here civilly and intellectually. I notice you post once a month on average, so I can understand why you might treat this like any other site.

At any rate, I just feel like I could have thumbed you up had it been worded a little more nicely.

OPHIDIAN
OPHIDIAN
10 years ago

Mounce,

Unfortunately, your argument is that of an otiose one.

If you properly read my original post, you'll find that I never said the Move was created because of the Wii. What I did say, however, was that Sony's attempt was overdue. Had they made the Move earlier, I think the PS3 would have had a better stronghold of the market.

In relation to you questioning my intelligence because of voicing an opinion, which is bizarre in itself, you will be happy to know that I am a Barrister at Law in England. I hope this rests any concerns you may have.

Stratsman
Stratsman
10 years ago

I feel the same way. An attempt to grab some of the Nintendo dollars. I also agree that this new tech is not for hardcore gamers. I don't think most gamers over 35 or 40, and there are a lot of us, want a workout with our game play.

Beamboom
Beamboom
10 years ago

Well Stratsman, I'm 41 and preordered the Move stick today. I don't think you should worry about getting too fit. I can picture a lot more uses than just working out our biceps (or whatever those lumps are called).

Scarecrow
Scarecrow
10 years ago

It's like a cold war between Sony and Microsoft
They probably just did it because they knew one or the other was going to do it

I'm all 'bout games, so if they can give me games I can enjoy with this then I'll get it. I'll have to wait 'till Sorcery comes out to actually get Move.

Sony could actually win if their motto behind Move is to make high quality games and not casual games. But hey their initial goal might indeed be to make the Move for the casual gamer.

I just think it'd be better if they focus on hardcore games….

I'm still psyched at the idea of a high quality MOVE-based jrpg…

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
10 years ago

They've said from the start that the plan is to bring motion sensing to the core experience and HD gaming.

godsman
godsman
10 years ago

I don't know about high quality games though. If they are willing to spend 30 million dollars on a move game, they wouldn't be selling them for $39.99. It'll be simple games with good gameplay. I am still not sure how much depth Sorcery will be until more information is given.

gangan19
gangan19
10 years ago

Sony: run by engineers with a strong hardware legacy.

totozero18
totozero18
10 years ago

Thank god Sony has Snake on it's side, MS is screwed.

LegendaryWolfeh
LegendaryWolfeh
10 years ago

Eh, the concept is interesting (not that it's new or anything), getting to actually move around and such, but at some point, you just get tired of it, and just want to sit back and game like you always have and how it's meant to (tis why the wii loses attention over time, it's just annoying have to nunchuck around all the time)

godsman
godsman
10 years ago

Well it doesn't NEED to be moving around all the time. Like the best mario wii games, moving is minimal. Mostly are using the remote to select items on the screen, which is really clever and controls are tight. Move just need to do the same thing but with better graphics and I'm sold.

maxpontiac
maxpontiac
10 years ago

I know why Kinect will fail, if you have seen the Harry Potter – Kinect video, so will you.

godsman
godsman
10 years ago

To add to what you said:

Kinect is not what it seems by the marketing. There are many videos E3 are prerecorded. Most are actors on stage.

Snaaaake
Snaaaake
10 years ago

godsman, is it confirmed that it's all pre-recorded?

totozero18
totozero18
10 years ago

@Snaaaaaake

Remember that video of the girl (I'll quote Buttler here) "Catching red balls" on E3?
Just watch the video closely and you'll see that the girl's movements and the "response" in the video is way off, sometimes she goes faster or even slower than what's shown on the video.

Can't remember if Kinect included movement "prediction" within it's functions.


Last edited by totozero18 on 8/30/2010 1:58:40 PM

RebelJD
RebelJD
10 years ago

"No More Heroes" on the PS3 with Move. Total awesomeness all over again.

Kiryu
Kiryu
10 years ago

I am going to buy the move to mostly to play first person shooter's.The normal controllers are just not good for them.
Look at the Killzone 3 Move demo and you'll know.


Last edited by Kiryu on 8/27/2010 10:19:36 PM

Qubex
Qubex
10 years ago

Kiryu, you may be disappointed when trying to do that. You have to calibrate the lollipop before using it. Then the response time is not that great for the fast TWITCH movements you need for FPS play…

We will see how SoCom and Killzone 3 turn out, but I would be surprised if they are as responsive as the pads… Maybe for those games, the gameplay has been tweaked to compensate for the Move controller lag, so you don't feel it that much.

It could be that the respective enemies you go against are a little slower and a little less accurate, therefore aiming with move may feel bang on, but in actual fact, the game mode has been tweaked to compensate for Move accordingly…

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"


Last edited by Qubex on 8/28/2010 4:01:24 AM

A2K78
A2K78
10 years ago

I'm just wondering what Sony and Microsoft intend because both Move and Kinect look dead on arrival e.g. going the way of the Virtual Boy and SEGA-CD

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
10 years ago

One of the *big* advantages that 'Move' has is that controller. Kinect has nothing.

I think that Move will ultimately be able to capitalize on the actual controllers as well as the camera for control schemes in hardcore games that add to the immersion. Along with 3D, Move really brings that concept of virtual reality into the Home for the first time.

Having played a few games on the PSEye which has double the frame capture rate as Kinect, I know how imprecise and vague the control can be. I know that MS promises theirs is better, but I just can't see how it can be when the camera is working with half the number of frames as the PSEye at the same resolution.

I don't honestly see the two products as equivalent, and see Move having a place in the casual games scene and in specific hardcore games. Kind of the way that that the Guncon3 works with Time Crisis 4. Not every game will use Movee. Not every game has to use it, but some will use Move well enough to attract even hardcore gamers.

godsman
godsman
10 years ago

Wait till 3rd Party developers start making PSeye games that can do 80% or more of what Kinect can do. The reason for PSeye's low attach rate is because there aren't that many games for it. The Move will be the trojan horse to get PSeye to everyone's home.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
10 years ago

I think Heavy Rain will be even more tense with Move. I'm an old fashioned dude but I still want to have it for a few reasons. Still, I think most people will buy them for the same reason they bought a Wii, the gimmick is freakin neat, just not for very long.

I think that Kinect will fizzle because A) It doesn't really work, and B) It can't do anything hardcore. But Move has a shot at success because, well, Sony doesn't really do failure.

godsman
godsman
10 years ago

Will the old Heavy Rain copies have Move support with an update? If so I won't be buying the newer full priced version.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
10 years ago

Yes, the patch will be free as well.

Snicket
Snicket
10 years ago

What would we all be thinking now if videogames in the begining had started with motion control then evolved into the norm controllers?

But is PSX going to do a hands on move preview/review?

hadouken
hadouken
10 years ago

Good articles as usually. Truthfully, I'm not a fan of the whole motion sensor revoulution but I support Sony through thick and thin.

So maybe I will check it someday after it's released.

Bugzbunny109
Bugzbunny109
10 years ago

I believe that Kinect will sell quite well because it will attract the casual crowd-the wii-gamers. Every hardcore player knows that you can't play Halo or gears with Kinect; but you can play "Kinectimals". People will buy Kinect because they want to explore controller free gaming. In summary, MS just created their Wii. In my perspective, Kinect will be successful, but will become old quickly because it is essentially a gimick. This is exactly my problem with MS. They are completely ignoring their hardcore crowd by focusing more on the casual. For example, what hardcore games have been announced exclusively for the 360 except Halo: Reach and Gears of War 3?
The PS Move is intended for both hardcore and casual gamers. Sony, unlike Microsoft, is focusing on their casual and hardcore gamers. Unfortunately, the PS Move will not be as big as a success as Kinect because the Ps3 is $300; and controller based motion control is already in the market.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
10 years ago

Move doesn't cost $300 though. The hardcore gamers that you say that Sony is also catering to already have a PS3, and many of them have a PSEye, so to those gamers, Move is a relatively cheap buy.

Lawless SXE
Lawless SXE
10 years ago

It's an interesting theory. I mean, it is often difficult for people to accept new things, but look at the success of the Wii. Sure, it may not be primarily the older, core gamers that purchased it, but it is still proof that anyone can get into the motion sensing (MSG). I actually agree entirely with you Ben, even though what I consider my 'real' gaming experience only goes back as far as four years.

Gaming is a sedentary, lonesome hobby. This generation has gone a long way towards changing that with the advent of MSG and multiplayer, but I believe that a great many people still enjoy games for the interactivity and the story. It really is the best of both worlds, at least until people start to neglect their bodies in favour of playing games. An all too common occurrence. But Move and Kinect are able to combat that, so perhaps we should ALL be looking forward to them.

Personally, I don't see the appeal of these peripherals as I don't see any way for them to improve the experience of most games. The use of them will be shoehorned in in order to say 'compatible with PSMove/Kinect'. Sure, a game developed entirely with the peripheral in mind, a la Sorcery, will rock, but in all truth and honesty, how many of them will there be?

I suppose it all comes down to the human condition. In my experience, people are lazy, pessimistic and defeatist, and so can easily lose themselves in an entertainment medium. It's why gaming is quickly gaining popularity: people can do nothing and still feel like they are doing something. Unfortunately, I think gaming is a cause for the degradation of humanity.

I know that last paragraph was off-topic, but it's a problem that's been occupying my mind lately and it does sort of fit in with the whole concept of the factions of gaming.
Peace.

Axe99
Axe99
10 years ago

It's not gaming that's driving it – before gaming, more people lost themselves in alcohol or drugs or violence. I know a lot of gamers who are also passionate about Society – indeed, it's the non-gamers who don't even game that tend to be even more of a problem. Just by gaming, people get used to doing something – it's far more conducive to further action that drinking beer watching TV and doing nothing.

dork02840
dork02840
10 years ago

ben i tend to agree with your assessment. i for one have stayed away from any type of motion sensing or peripheral input controller. whether that be lethal enforcer at the arcades, the old nintendo light gun or track and field track pad, the nintendo glove, or even one of the fishing rods that came with a psx fishing game i bought. none of these games interested me. they frustrated me. i am very uncoordinated. i trip over fire hydrants when i am drunk on occasion. in fact ben, its funny you bring up this article about the older generation. i myself am part of the NES/genesis generation/peco generation of the mid 80s. just last night i found a store nearby me in neighboring mass called the Time Capsule that specializes in retro games and dvds and books. i am going road tripping on my off day sunday, and it has crossed my mind to stop there on the way back because i enjoy the simple pleasures of fighting games and platformers. no one here can convince me that(as much as it pains me to say) that blazblue is even in the same league as mortal kombat ultimate edition or killer instinct gold. or that gran turismo is nearly as much fun as cruisin USA. the only temptation i have with motion sensing is a very tunnel visioned one. i am tempted to get the new time crisis game bundle with the move purely to get one in my home so that at some point i can grab another one and a title that resembles punch out and play that with friends. that is the extent to which i desire the technology. i personally feel a suit would be much better then a wand. the day you can do a WWE game with a tshirt that transmits your every move via a built in motion sensor then call me(only reason i bring that up is because in UK they have created a shirt like this where you can make cell phone calls by putting your SIM card under the brand tag of the shirt. various gestures control it…holding up to your ear picks it up, putting it down ends the call, etc.

Neo_Aeon666
Neo_Aeon666
10 years ago

I think this editorial is odd lol.

Some people won't get into move or kinect because it has no interest for them and that is fine. Just like some people won't ever buy an xbox a ps3 or a wii.

Guess thats is just your reflexion uppon newer technologies. But I think any person who tries move at least will enjoy it. ( I tried it ) And it is a very interesting piece of hardware. First time I really had to make sure my virtual ping pong racket was dead on the ball to hit lol.

There will always be conservative people who dislike new things and ideas lol. And some people who will enjoy it but will never be as hooked to it as to some other things and that is ok. But I think any one can *move* and enjoy it very much as long as they have their two arms and some motor skills lol

DeathOfChaos
DeathOfChaos
10 years ago

I think it all depends on how they use the new stuff. Imagine a new Flower that utilizes the Move controller; just awesome.

Qubex
Qubex
10 years ago

That would get me interested in Move!

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

Temjin001
Temjin001
10 years ago

I'd like Move to be successful for Sony, because they can juggle the introduction of a new peripheral for an interested audience while keeping a steady flow of quality first party games in the cue. It's being offered as an appendage of the Sony brand, rather than a whole body make-over.

MS, on the other hand, seems to be so intensely focused on re-branding, labeling, and marketing their identity because of the Kinect, I'm beginning to become skeptical of their ability to continue growing their market within their already existing sector.

As for whether or not a motion interface could ever become a preference of mine, I don't know, yet.

To defend the game pad standard of play.
I'm happy with the sort of games I can engage in with the existing DS3 controller. My mindset is as such that the control interface has a purpose for bridging the gap of a player's mind with the game environment. I think having full body motion as the interface actually hinders the suspension of unbelief. Do I always want to be watching the screen as a mirror of my actions? Where my mind is constantly focused on the world of being.

If we think back to the advent of the analog stick in console gaming, it was implemented to properly represent motion in a 3D environment, but not to necessarily mimmic my actual motions. The buttons on the controller served as the input mechanism for issuing commands. As a player became acclimated to the input mechanics, the controller became a near invisible component.

Other than capturing of the finer movement of the arm in motion, I don't know if the motion interfaces being introduced to us in the coming months are going to, or could, re-invent the wheel for the majority of games like the game pad can.

BikerSaint
BikerSaint
10 years ago

All I know is when all is said & done,

I'll be Kinect'ing my new controllers so I can get my "MoveGroove" on!

gangan19
gangan19
10 years ago

I'm getting move! you just can't judge without trying it first.

that's my best belief

MadPowerBomber
MadPowerBomber
10 years ago

My problem with this sort of gaming is this: I have cruel friends, and the last thing I wanna be is on youtube doing something stupid while playing a video game.

It's bad enough I broke my own television in complete and total nerdrage thanks to call of duty — an outburst I haven't had since I was like… fourteen twenty years ago and my friends told me they wished they could've gotten it recorded to show the world.

No Move. No Kinect. No Wii.

Not once, not never.

Lawless SXE
Lawless SXE
10 years ago

If you don't want to be on Youtube doing stupid things, don't do stupid things when other people are nearby with a camera (or a phone nowadays). And LOL! at breaking your TV as a result of CoD. Another black mark on Activision…
Peace.

MadPowerBomber
MadPowerBomber
10 years ago

I don't, haha. Well, except when I'm drinking, but there's rarely a camera around. And I don't blame Activision for much of anything. They did very little in regards to making the game, that was all Infinity Ward. It's their fault people can noobtube the crap out of everyone else and the game has the UBERknife of doom. I usually have a lot of fun with the game, despite its flaws, but that night. Man, my fourteen year old self came out and threw the controller right at the floor, pretty friggin' hard… only to have it bounce up and smack the television screen. 50 inch plasma down the drain.

needless to say, I haven't touched MW2 since. Haha.

StangMan80
StangMan80
10 years ago

I now move will be better then kinect, but I most likely won't get it.
I see were sony is coming from, they want to get to a new group of gamers, bring in casuel gamers/family friendly games. But I don't see the move being used by a hard-core gamer, it's more for casual gaming(motion controls).
I'll stick with my DS3.