Ben-DutkaNo, I don't own a Wii and yes, I'm Editor-in-Chief of a PlayStation-oriented website. But at my age and with my permanent philosophy of "just play great games, regardless of the system," I think I'm perfectly capable of forming a candid, honest opinion of Nintendo's effort this generation. Just bear with me.
First of all, let me just say that I applaud Nintendo for accomplishing what they did with the Wii. I was one of many who counted them out in this generation after the GameCube fell short; most simply believed Nintendo couldn't compete in the literal power struggle between Sony and Microsoft. Ah, but instead of fooling themselves into believing it, Nintendo decided to say, "to hell with it; we're just gonna target a brand new demographic: just about every hardcore gamer who wants something fresh, and every casual gamer on earth." And they did just that. This system appealed to – apparently – the entire damn planet, and that's impressive regardless of how one views the situation. Yes, I did believe the motion sensing thing was a gimmick, but who cares if it's a gimmick that works ? On every possible level?
With the Wii and the DS, Nintendo owns the lead in the current generation, and deservedly so. Numbers don't lie; the world loves the Wii. But all this being said, I firmly believe both Microsoft and Sony will finish ahead of Nintendo yet again this generation for two big reasons: 1. consumers are fickle, and 2. the seemingly unending lack of "AAA" software. Let's deal with the former first. While everyone was enamored with the new-look (and new-feel) video game console at first, I can tell the fascination is already beginning to wear off. And why? The gimmick hasn't blossomed beyond what it was when the system launched, and gimmicks need some form of growth or innovation in order to keep the fickle consumer fat and happy. Furthermore, there's the problem with the software…I feel like this is the GameCube, Phase 2. Why is Nintendo doing this? Again? What could possibly be the reason?
Now, somebody will say, "dude, the Wii has tons of games!" Yeah, no it doesn't. Look at 2008. List off all the Game of the Year candidates. Hell, I'll let you list 20 or 25 if you want. Then, do the same thing of your most anticipated games for the first six months of 2009. …done? How many on that list are on the Wii? Any? Look, we all know that GTAIV, MGS4, DMC4, GT5: Prologue, Gears 2, Resistance 2, LittleBigPlanet, and others will lead the pack in 2008, and I'm looking at God of War 3, Killzone 2, Heavy Rain, Street Fighter IV, and more in the first part of 2009. I always want to play the best of the best, as do most avid gamers out there, and we didn't pass on the GC just because we don't like Nintendo. I'm not passing on the Wii because I don't like Nintendo. I LOVE Nintendo. They're responsible for my current passion and the SNES was my favorite system of all time. But since then, I haven't owned a Nintendo console and there's a reason .
There just always seems to be this permanent lack of must-have software. Yes, I know the Wii will have its standard mascots in Mario, Zelda and Metroid lead the way, but that's nowhere near enough. Not with the likes GTAIV and MGS4 slaughtering the competition in the first half of 2008 and Gears 2 and Resistance 2 set to do the same thing in the second half of 2008. Perhaps the casual gamers will stick with Zelda, Wii Sports, the new Smash Brothers, and Super Mario Galaxy, but that's not even enough to compete with the current PS3 exclusives! Look, there's no doubting the appeal of the Wii: it's by far the most affordable option, it's great fun for all ages, it's incredibly reliable, and there is a bit of diversity in the library. But as the PS3 and 360 begin to really show the technical lacking in the Wii with each passing year – good goddamn; MGS4 compared to anything on the Wii is a joke, IMO – and Nintendo still refuses to come with enough great software…well, I think the jig is up.
Unless this changes, Nintendo will lose their lead eventually. It may take a while, but it will happen. I don't necessarily want this to happen; I want Nintendo to finally give me a reason to own a Wii. But they haven't done it yet and looking down the road, I feel myself transported back to the days of the GC. I looked down that road then, too, and again, I saw very, very little. Sorry, but that's just the way I see it.
Super Mario Sunshine? Don't you mean Super Mario Galaxy?! How could you love Nintendo if you haven't owned a system since the SNES which I assume means you've missed out on 4 Zelda games, 3 SSB games, 3 Mario games, and 3 Metroid games? Makes no sense to me.
Yes Galaxy, sorry. It's just a typo; I played the game.
And congrats on naming basically all the "AAA" games Nintendo has produced in the past 15 years. And saying any SSBM is "AAA" is a stretch, anyway. You just made my point for me. 🙂
Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 8/29/2008 10:27:39 PM
Well honestly I dont care about the others but no Zelda?
I actually can concur with this article i do own a wii i haven't played it since smash bros brawl released. and even then i only played brawl for maybe a week to get all the characters. the reason why the wii is selling as well as it has is because nintendo has been controlling stock to keep hype up. i have played the likes of mario galaxy twilight princess smash bros brawl and melee but in all honesty there wasn't much available to the gc and not much available to the wii still. so i can see and agree with a lot of what he had to say.
For me it's not that I don't love the wii games, Twighlight princess is like one of my top 5 that i've played since 2006, but I can't validate a purchase like you said Ben. The software doesn't come strong enough and like motion control is great and all but like sometimes they over do it and other times it just is plain annoying. Zelda Metroid and other FPS's on the wii, not counting red steel, are the ones that have worked fantastic for me. So right now I'm gonna stick to playing my cousin's wii and keep ps3 at home and maybe 360 soon :). But if Nintendo stops making games that's main purpose is to say "look you can look like an idiot in front of everyone while playing a 'serious' game" than yeah I'll buy.
I've always considered getting a Wii simply for Super Mario Galaxy and Brawl… but then I remember how I can't stand to play a Wii for more than 10 minutes.
To be perfectly honest the GameCube and Wii was not targeted to most of anybody on this site. The system main appeal was targeted toward children. Most adults who bought the Cube and Wii for Mario, Metroid, and Zelda feel jaded after the nostalgia is over because few other titles appeal to them. I feel the Wii is succeeding for Nintendo because they already got a pretty large install base. And for most children if ask them if they like they Wii they would tell you they love it.
I really don't think Nintendo will lose their lead. It's too large, and while it's slowing down a bit, it's really not slowing down that much.
I remember telling my friend in the first few months of the Wii's success that once games like MGS4 and GTA4 drop, everyone was going to forget about the Wii, and it just never happened. The big games like Bioshock, Halo 3, Gears, GTP, GTA4, MGS4, Devil May Cry and so on kept on dropping and didn't really hurt it.
The only HUGE games missing this generation are Final Fantasy and Resident Evil and I don't think either of those will make people forget about the Wii. They might slow it down a bit, but those soccer moms will make it pop right back to the top.
The 360 wont ever catch up, but the PS3 MIGHT, but only towards the end of it's life. By then Nintendo will probably have the Wii2.
How long do you guys think it will take for us to see Sony starting to catch up? It's still outselling it by so much.
Last edited by Fabi on 8/29/2008 11:42:09 PM
"I remember telling my friend in the first few months of the Wii's success that once games like MGS4 and GTA4 drop, everyone was going to forget about the Wii, and it just never happened. The big games like Bioshock, Halo 3, Gears, GTP, GTA4, MGS4, Devil May Cry and so on kept on dropping and didn't really hurt it. "
I think the reason why these games didn't crush the Wii is because the Wii is successful with other target audiences, and this generation is a little different than the others. This time around, this generation, every single console is significant. Every single console remains important. So one console crushing the other isn't bound to happen.
Sony and Microsoft are trying to sell themselves on account of their software.
Great Game = Sales.
Nintendo is selling themselves on account of their hardware.
Motion sensing = Super special awesome gimmick = Sales.
Don't get me wrong, I actually intend to buy a Wii someday( XD ), but after I get other things. As in, it'd be the last thing after an HDTV and 360. There is simply no incentive to get the Wii first.
I have no doubt Nintendo will always have a place in the video game industry. It has an extremely talented conceptual team, and it's first party games are top notch.
Therein lies the problem with Nintendo, at least currently. While it's first party games are solid, it has little support from third parties besides shovelware.
as always, there are notable exceptions, but this is a definite problem for Nintendo. PS3 wouldn't be a viable option if the only solid games available were first party, and neither would the 360. The only reason it has kept up is that the base for the wii is largely uninformed, and doesn't know how to tell a good game from a waste of money. Sooner or later, even soccer moms will start to become savvy consumers (in regard to gaming), and at that point in time Nintendo is going to have to make its system look more attractive to mainstream studios.
nowadays it takes 3 years to make a AAA game, and Nintendo pretty much laid all of aces out on the table at once. It would be a pity if everyone had to wait another 3 years to get a new game worth buying…
I had a wii for a few months. I loved twilight princess and resident evil 4. that was it, after that I couldn't stand any other games.
It's crazy that Nintendo actually admitted to forgetting about the core gaming audience a few days ago. They say they are hard at work on making it up, but it's gonna take time.
i was considering on buying a wii but there are very few games i would purchase, so ill just stick with my ps3.
I personally think the Gamecube was a poor console too. The only games that really interested me were the RE & MGS Remake, & releases of Dreamcast games.
The N64 was just to over powered by the PS1, the PS1 had so many games series, i personally think its the best console of any generation. I loved the snes & Nes, Super Mario Bros 3 will always be an iconic figure to me.
As for the Wii, well its obviously losing out on comanies biggest games like GTA4 or MGS4 purely because the system just cant support it.You can add all the cute features you want but you cant deny that.
What also puts me off is the controllers, i play games to relax, i dont want to be whacking around hitting all the furniture, instead, i'll just lay down grab a PS3 controller and play. i know you can put the Wii controller on its side for a normal joypad but it defies the point of the games they design doesnt it.
To be honest, I haven't actually played many of the good Nintendo games you guys are talking about (Zelda, Metriod series, Mario) so the interest just isn't there for me. I was bought up playing Spyro and Crash on Playstation, but I could just as easily have been a Nintendo follower had my friends all bought Nintendo 64s…
i was a nintendo fanboy for the longest time. i waited from 4 am to get a wii. then a year later i got a ps3 mainly for blu ray, but now i dont even touch the wii (except when i play mario kart double dash, mario kart wii sucked). im glad someone finally said what i've been thinking. nintendo will lose out this generation bc they barely have any good games for it.
Am neva in urgent need of a wii but if i got a few bucks to spend i'ma go for it.
It's to be marketed towards idiots that buy a wii and it now collects dust.
Would you actually want a wii with NO games By the summer You'll probably be bored of smash bros. While it would actually be great if Nintendo released a new version of the Wii with a HDD but they went to far insulting there own Hardcore fans
First off, I own a Wii. It does not gather dust, and I use it at least every other day (I'm playing Okami just now, and after that I have three games on pre-order).
Surely your most anticipated games of 2008 / 2009 relies on which console you own? While I like the look of Little Big Planet, I'm not anticipating it, because I don't own a PS3, but a Wii. The games I'm anticipating over the coming year are De Blob, MadWorld, Ghostbusters (if it gets released), Lego Batman, Little Kings Story, Fatal Frame, Disaster: Day Of Crisis, The Conduit…
I can't help but notice that you only list Ninendo made games for the Wii, but yet do not apply the same policy to Microsoft or Sony made games for their respective consoles?
As for the technical comment – yes, the Wii is the poorer console in that respect. No one denies it, yet it seems anti-Wii writers have to point this out in every article. If anything, the Wii has proven that good gameplay is what matters first in a game.
I work in the Electronics section of a major big-box retailer (WM) and I'm in a position to see what is happening at the local level with sales. This is strictly anecdotal but there is no doubt that sales of Wii have started to slow down considerably. There was a time when we couldn't keep them on the shelves but now we have them for days.
Because of the kind of store we are, we attract the demographic that Nintendo is aiming at. Even though these people are being referred to as 'casual gamers' I don't think that name applies. The majority are NOT 'gamers' at all. Sure they might have done a few frames of bowling in WiiSports when the system first came home but they are largely uninterested. To call them 'gamers' is like calling somebody who makes a peanut butter sandwich a 'chef'.
They are, in many cases, completely unaware of what they are buying. I remember one sweet grandmother who wandered into Electronics with a note (obviously scrawled by a 7 year old) asking "Do you have the W…I…I?" I could have sold her anything and she would have left happy.
"Oh yes, the W 2…we have that but we also have the X box which is the newer version…W and next comes X…right?"
Or the other lady who wanted "Super Smash Brothers Bowling" and would take nothing else!
Or the mother and father buying a birthday present (a Wii game) who refused to even consider Mario Sluggers because "they already have baseball…[obviously the WiiSports version]…so why would they need another one?"
It was the same with Tiger Woods 09…golf is golf…there is no difference.
Gamers KNOW that there is a difference..there are better versions…better implimentations of the controls..but these subtleties are lost on these naive buyers.
So, even though there are few AAA games coming out for the Wii…their demographic doesn't know…or care. They couldn't recognise a AAA if it bit them on the hand. Sure there are Nintendo gamers who love great games and appreciate the technology but they are being buried under tons of cheap shovelware because the majority of Wii buyers (the non-gamers)don't demand anything else. The Wioi will continue to sell until it reaches saturation (when all of the non-gamers have access to one) and then Nintendo will crank up the marketing machine and release a new gimmick…but the gamers who want great games will be abandoned because there just aren't enough of them to make an economic impact on Nintendo if they stopped buying their products altogether.
That's a good point. I've noticed that, too. People really DON'T seem to care the Wii has any software when they go to buy it. I guess the gimmick is enough.
O come on
Theres no way the xbox360 userbase will catch upto the wii. Playstation 3 will struggle but that's got a long life cycle.
Ofcourse the wii has tons of games. The wii is selling the most software, must have some games eh.
MGS4 is slaughtering the competition…in what form?
It certainly isn't sales. Infact Brawl and Mario Kart have larger sales than MGS4. GTAIV has fantastic sales, and was always going to have…but wii games from early 08 are impressive.
This is all a bit silly….games for 09 to look forward to for wii?
The Conduit, Madworld, House of the Dead Overkill
You haven't owned an Nintendo system since the SNES…oh my dear god…
Galaxy is better than MGS4 btw. If Galaxy alone is not enough reason to own a wii, then god help ya.
Why cannot you just have all the consoles and appreciate how good they all are?
I dont have an xbox360, but I'm not going to bash it, its a good system…
I've got the PS3 and am looking forward to LBP , Motorstorm PR, Resistance 2…yeh
But don't say theres nothing for the wii coming…personally looking forward to Wario Land Shake it, De Blob, Samba de Amigo, Disaster Day of Crisis, RRR3, Animal Crossing
While I do generally agree with you Ben that Nintendo have overshot in the direction of casual gaming, after the E3 backlash I imagine they'll be working hard on getting the Mario and Zelda team projects into something they can show off very quickly, and maybe focus a few other resources in that direction.
The Wii essentially justifies a purchase with Metroid Prime 3, Super Mario Galaxy, Twilight Princess and Smash Brothers Brawl, especially with interesting third-party games like Zack and Wiki, No More Heroes and the upcoming MadWorld.
There's a very high signal to noise ratio with the Wii while publishers slap any cheap shovelware they can onto the system to appeal to a demographic that doesn't know any better, but there are some good games there.
Why don't you think Smash Brothers is AAA? In terms of hype it was right up there in the press, with the roster getting attention that Soul Calibur and Tekken never have. In terms of quality it's easily the best four-player fighter out there (and one of the best four-player games and most entertaining fighters altogether) and a very polished game to boot, with a huge roster, a strong (if nonsensical) solo mode and oodles of replayability. In terms of sales and critical response it's had a AAA reception. What arbitrary line does it not cross to be considered AAA?
So ultimately, yes, the Wii isn't a great primary console for the core gamer, but I'm not sure it will lose its edge over the other consoles. It's taken the PS2's place as the go-to console for the masses and for developers looking for the cheaper system with the higher user base. The jump in development costs between the Wii and the HD consoles is large enough that the developers who swarmed around the PS2 are much more content to develop for the Wii than the other two, at least as long as they can make a profit on it.
Last edited by The_Benny on 8/30/2008 9:19:34 AM
I do agree that as a supplemental console, the Wii should be a good option. And those games you mentioned; the first-party software of Nintendo, really is good enough to justify a purchase for many. But remember, this is just my opinion… 😉
For my part, I have never been impressed with just about any 3D Mario (sacrilege, I know), and as for SSBM, I just find it to be a horridly lame excuse for a fighting game. I don't even like fighting games to begin with. Zelda, yes, I can see that, and maybe Metroid too, but…well, you see where I'm going with this.
I suppose if you don't like fighting games or huge dollops of Nintendo fanservice then Smash Brothers really wouldn't appeal (or indeed a lot of the line-up). I've mentioned on the forum before that the N64 days in particular were spent gaming largely with the same group of friends day after day, and the four-player games on the N64 were wonderful for that, games which mostly carried through to the GameCube and are steadily making their way onto the Wii.
Nintendo (and third-party developers) were making games in ways which neither Sony or SEGA (and Sony/Microsoft for the gen after that) were. Smash Brothers in particular pretty much ticked all the boxes: four players, short games (for player rotation), varied cast of characters with lots of different styles, lots of varied and multi-level stages, items that could quickly change the pace of combat, matches that were largely skill-based but could also result in surprise victories…
I figured AAA was an objective thing though, and by the conditions I mentioned Smash Brothers would fit the bill. I don't like MGS4 but that doesn't make it any less of a AAA title. I also loved Pikmin 2 and would say it was one of my favourite games of the last generation, but that doesn't make it in any way a AAA title or a system seller.
You not enjoying 3D Mario games is surprising. It's pretty much the only series that still plays as a pure platformer, with tight controls, well crafted levels and even since Mario 64 they've had an intuitive camera that a lot of developers have yet to equal.
So ultimately you seem to be in the same position with the Wii that I am with the PS3. There are big games that people are buying and enjoying, but they don't personally interest you.
I had 2 Wii's, get the first one on launch day, a very very very fun machine for 3 hours. Then get repetitive and looked for a friend to come over my place and get some Wii time, result Wii sold within the next month.
The second one I bought was to play the 2 RE games available for the system, result games played and Wii again sold within a month.
I don't like Mario or Zelda games, so what's the point of having a Wii? And in the future I don't see any games that may call my attention. And if the games will not be there, I will not have the console.
It's the same for my 360, It is collecting dust uintil Gears 2 is released. But at least there is a game that I'm looking forward to it
Hmmm I stumbled across to this place again xD
Wii does have games, I've played plenty to keep me satisfied and happy and there is tons more coming out. Tenchu IV, Fatal Frame 4, HOTD: Overkill, MadWorld, The Conduit etc, thats just first parties. Nintendo has Wii Music and Animal Crossing coming out and while they may not be appealing to the "core" (although Animal Crossing is one of those games that appeals to everyone) they do appeal to the casual gamer.
Those two games alone will be plenty enough to keep the casual gamer interested in Wii and the improved third party support (which no one can deny because the upcoming Wii games are nothing like Wii owners have seen yet). Sales aren't going to slow down to the point where Nintendo is passed by both the 360 and PS3. Wii may not have Game Of The Year Candidates, but I wouldn't consider some of those (GT5 Prologue, DMC4 etc.) to be candidates either.
Those two are worried about each other and second place right now and both continue to sell units making it harder for PS3 to pass 360 even despite PS3 picking up sales. Wii is targeting a certain demographic but so to are the other platforms. LittleBigPlanet is one of those games similar to Animal Crossing in the sense where it appeals to everyone, but thats Sony's way of tapping into that market. Microsoft is doing it with the Avatars and music games coming out so clearly what Wii was doing interested them to do the same.
Plus we're heading into the price cut ranges and 360 is the first one to drop prices, showing signs they're ready to pack it in despite still having tons of games coming out. Wii sold units when there was sh** all to play, I found myself playing now from May on and that's when I decided to pick up another console. The fall things heat up again so my interest will be there and units will stay at a steady rate, maybe the reason Wii's aren't moving right now is because of the lack of software currently. But it does pick up in the Fall and continues well into 2009 where Nintendo has games like Zelda, Pikmin, Mario etc. to showcase.
That's a good reply and it's not that I don't like your opinion (a friend of mine is of the same opinion, basically), but I just find it AMAZING that you can skirt the issue entirely without disproving a single one of my points.
That's some sort of skill. 😉 Basically, all you did is prove my point that the Wii has no top-quality software this year in GoY candidates and that Nintendo still only has the Zeldas, Marios and Metroids. But you made it sound like a GOOD thing. Which for some, I suppose, it is. And I don't mind that in the least. My buddy loves the Wii because he can play it at any given time with his wife, and both enjoy the simple entertainment that they also know their kids will enjoy. In that way, like I said, I will always applaud Nintendo for tapping into that demographic Sony and Microsoft seem content to ignore.
For the record, Wii supporters, I would strongly urge you NOT to list the supposedly "AAA" titles the Wii has coming. I didn't do it for a reason, and it's because it makes the system look REALLY bad. Does anyone, regardless of which system they own, honestly believe the likes of (and I'm quoting) "Wario Land Shake it, De Blob, Samba de Amigo, Disaster Day of Crisis, RRR3, Animal Crossing, Lego Batman, Little Kings Story, Fatal Frame, etc." can in ANY way compete with the huge titles that are already here and still coming for the PS3 and 360? Really?
Those titles compete with GTAIV, MGS4, DMC4, Gears 2, Resistance 2, Killzone 2, GT5, FFXIII, FF Versus XIII, LBP, Fable II, God of War 3, Heavy Rain, etc.? Please, think about this for a second.
Well I have to agree with Ben, because the Wii software is horrible, but i also agree with Brw that it doesn't need Top Software (Mario, Zelda,etc.) to be a good system.
I would just like a quality game made for the Wii. I am tired of PS2 ports with motion controls thrown in. Please name a game besides 1st party that I would want to play on the Wii?
I have looked and looked and tried to keep my Wii from collecting dust, but the PS3 games are so much better, or keep your interest. The only game I really love on the Wii is Tiger Woods. That's the only 3rd party game I can think of that solidifies the situation.
Even my fiance thinks the games on the Wii are horrible. She would rather play Wii tennis than Top Spin 3, (atrocious).
I would be happy if there was even 1 Wii game I was looking forward to that wasn't 1st party.
Came you name one, and bring me back to the dark side?
Edit: Ben posted before me, and want to comment on that.
This exactly what I am talking about. None of those games makes you excited. Nintendo has lost is flavor of game making. All it is now is Mini-games!!!! YAY. (sarcasm).
(only legit release there is animal crossing.)
Now if they made Kingdom Hearts for it, thats a different story.
Last edited by caliblue15 on 8/30/2008 10:51:42 AM
Wow I really enjoy reading articles like this, as it makes me laugh. One thing I have to say about a lot of hardcore gamers are when it comes to the games industry, they use their emotions rather than simple logic!
“I firmly believe both Microsoft and Sony will finish ahead of Nintendo yet again this generation for two big reasons: 1. consumers are fickle, and 2. the seemingly unending lack of "AAA" softwareâ€
The thing is, it is not a bad thing to like a particular genre of game or a particular game console, we are all human, we all have what we like. But when we decide that instead of using logic, we will blind our selves with emotions thus distorting the truth, you will end up believing quotes like the one above.
I would like to ask the author when this major turn around will be? When will these HD consoles start beating the Wii in America or even Japan let alone world wide? As far as I am concerned this whole generation has had all the AAA games (according to hardcore gamers) on the HD systems, yet every month without fail the wii will sell an extraordinary amount of units.
Every NPD since the Wii launched hardcore gamers have been shocked with pain to see how well its doing, and may I say it is seriously spanking its competition. Could it be that the average person actually enjoys the games and what Wii has to offer? Somehow these people (she don’t say it too loud! Casuals) are seen as dumb because they would rather play carnival games with their children and friends (and they actually enjoy it. GOSH!!) rather than play a game like gears of war where you run around in a fantasy world as a macho soldier killing aliens and swearing.
And about there being no software for the Wii, well that’s also blinded by emotions again, hasn’t the Wii been selling the Most software (3rd party) according to NPD figures, even more than 360? (http://kotaku.com/5034951/heres-that-wii-third-party-sales-proof-you-requested).
I think you tell your self these things to make it easier for you to face the future. Very pathetic really. My advice enjoy what you enjoy, and don’t look at other people as fickle customers simply because they enjoy what you don’t, hell I am pretty sure a lot of people reading this enjoy that movie hostel, where by I think it’s a pile of garbage, I am not going to start looking at them and call them fickle moviegoer’s. At the end of day its all entertainment, what one man likes another man will not.
P.S i am not trying to insult you and if you feel that way i apologies, but i think it's time for you to get to grips with reality
And those games you listed ( GTAIV, MGS4, DMC4, Gears 2, Resistance 2, Killzone 2, GT5, FFXIII, FF Versus XIII, LBP, Fable II, God of War 3, Heavy Rain,) would only be considerd as AAA ga,es by you hardcore gamers yet again. What if we have the average person decide what they think is an excellent game? I think the list would be ver different.
I am not trying to lash out or anything, but you hardcore gamers think you are the life and soul of this industry, lets first get rid of that fallacy.
Its has not been the hardcorz who have been the life blood of this industry, but rather it has been the mainstream, especially children, they are are the life blood, it is because of them that you can have your games like the GTA’s and the MGS’s.
If it was nothing but the hardcorz that held up the industry the Wii probably would not have sold 5 million units by now. In no way could the PS2 reach over a hundred million sales, simply by the having a hardcore supporting it. I would guess the bulk of those sales came from the same people we label the casuals., though i would not include a lot of elderly people in that group then.
And the last i heard the Wii is still sold out in NA so wheres all this talk about slow down. Did you guys actually see the last NPD figures?
This really is Hilarious!
"Wario Land Shake it, De Blob, Samba de Amigo, Disaster Day of Crisis, RRR3, Animal Crossing, Lego Batman, Little Kings Story, Fatal Frame"
never heard of any of them but Fatal Frame.
What kind of garbage is this?
oh and MGS4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Super Mario Galaxy
Id take a fresh brilliant game over a remake with sparkly gimmicks.
R you Serious. So on one hand We have Mario Galaxy which is the 3rd iteration of the 3d games and then we have MGSIV oh yeah and by the way the IV means 4 which means we are in its fourth iteration which is of its 3d games, yet you label one of them as a remake with sparkly gimmicks and the other as fresh, and this makes sense how? i will guess you have played MGS but have you even played mario galaxy?
This is more proof of thinking with emotions rather than logic.
P.S what did you find refreshing about MGS that was not in the previous games? I really enjoyed 4 but i would say the first MGS on the PS1 was the best of the series
I agree with Ben when it comes to comparing game for game.
Those Wii games you guys listed are probably good, but those are the types of games that would make great side games while you're waiting for something like MGS4 or Gears of War 2.
I played Mario Galaxy and Future Tools in the same week. While Mario Galaxy had awesome level design. I enjoyed Future Tools a lot more. But it's unfair to directly compare both, because one is a true platform game and the other is an action/shooter/platformer. So to the guy who compared MGS4 to Galaxy, PLEASE. That is a ridiculous comparison.
@Torontoguy – Awesome read. Very interesting.
Come on, when X-Play named the best games of E3 for each system, they didn't crown any for the Wii because they didn't want any of the Wii games shown to win by default.
BUT I do disagree with Ben about the PS3 catching up. Like I said before, I don't see the Wii really slowing down. By the time the PS3 catches up, both companies will probably have newer systems.
Last edited by Fabi on 8/30/2008 11:44:25 AM
I love how many of you defend the Wii, and then at the end of the day… Your Wii actually sits somewhere in your room collecting dust.
Let's face it… Honestly I don't believe the Nintendo brand is ment for gaming anymore. There is absalutly no need for a Wii, there is no point in having it.
Tell me, how many games do you actually play on the Wii? Compared to the games you play on the PS3 or X360? The Wii may have the best install base so far, but that dosn't mean anything if all anyone is doing is tossing them to the side and allow them to gather dust.
Anyone ever try to play Super Smash Bros online? Yea, good luck finding anyone on there.
All in all, the Wii just has some really nice sales going for it's self. But out of the 20 Wiis that are sold, how many people actually use them for more than a week? Right, like I said before, collecting dust.
Props to Ben on this, because his point of view makes the most sense to me, out of everyones.
And no, not just because he has a cool job.
Last edited by Tatsujin on 8/30/2008 11:45:54 AM
Your point was there isn't games to play but there is and I proved it. For one I said there was plenty already released for me to play with (it's just really been the summer that was bad for me because I'm not really into the Wii Fits or Maddens of the summer but others are). Then there is plenty coming from third party developers that interests me, MadWorld, The Conduit, Tenchu IV, Fatal Frame IV etc. thats third party exclusives.
Multiplatform games like Guitar Hero 4 and Call Of Duty 5 aren't simple Wii gimmick games and were developed closely with the 360/PS3 versions, honestly World At War looks really impressive for a Wii game and is one of the better offerings from third parties coming up. Check previews for the games I listed though, The Conduit (great online play, metroid controls, nice visuals), MadWorld, Tenchu IV hell even look at Call Of Duty for Wii and you may be surprised that it's a Wii game.
Again please don't list GT5, DMC4 and Final Fantasy (not coming out for a very long time) as good upcoming Game Of The Year candidates. The other point I made was that third party support has IMPROVED, look at the first year from third parties compared to now. Yeah it doesn't compete with all the games on the other platforms (thats debatable entirely in itself though) but it's support Wii's been missing and now we're finally getting it. After all this is a Wii article and you were talking about games etc. and there is games. It's time to stop denying the real facts, Wii games are slowly improving and third party devs aren't filling it up with complete shovelware and ports.
And Nintendo has more than enough titles aside from Mario, Zelda and Metroid (new one of that isn't even being worked on?). There's Pikmin, StarFox, F-Zero and Kid Icarus which were all supposed to be shown at E3 but due to development constraints those games clearly were not ready to be shown. And again maybe those games don't interest you "hardcore" PS3/360 owners but it does interest many and is enough to keep Nintendo going until their next console is released. Sorry but it's going to take a lot more from the other companies (and a lot less from Nintendo) to bring the Wii down.
You fail to realize there are no GotY canidates for the Wii.
P.S. CoD's graphics for the Wii look horrible compared to PS3 and X360. And I really dunknow how you can possibly run around with a Wiimote.
And Ive never heard of any of the games you listed (Maybe a few)
And I know your Wii is just collecting dust.
And sorry for the double post but this is to the poster above me.
My Wii doesn't collect any dust actually, I still go back and play Mario Kart (addicting online), Brawl (good local mulitplayer even if online is bad), and Twilight Princess. Currently though I've been playing Madden 09 and Mario Sluggers and I am eagerly awaiting the upcoming titles.
Please don't be a fanboy and bring in the "collecting dust" comments. Have you surveyed those 20 people who bought Wii's and played them for only a week?..no I didn't think so. Core gamers can find things to play on Wii, and the casual have things to play and look forward to as well.
Actually, I have surveyed about close to 40 people at school. Only 10 of them actually played their Wii. Thanks for trying though, but you fail.
Oh, and I can clearly see how I am a fanboy when I say the Wii is collecting dust in most households. Nice.
Anecdotal evidence 4 teh winz.
I can do that, i interveiwed all my work collegues (about 100 of them) who have a Wii and all but one said the play it very frequently, ok you go 🙂
Hey Ben, that is true. Nintendo made alot of money and they should use it wisely in this generation or the next generation. People will always want a fresh new content, something great and something to brag about. Honestly, we're not living in the past anymore.
The good things about Wii is if you have a family of young kids or friends that you want to play around with with Sports or their other games. But I almost bought a Wii until Little Big Planet showed more trailers and I found out that you can customize, play online, share and do many many great possibilities! I mean, that game ALONE captures the heart of casual gamers! I'm hardcore and casual, and because of that game I dropped my sense to buy Wii once and for all. I never played Zelda, I do want to play it, but its old now and its the same shit over and over again. Can we come up with something new, Wii?
In my opinion, i think the Wii is only a marketing ploy for nintendo's next box. I think that the target demographic is casual gamers, who are most likely adults and small children. If the children aren't introduced to the Wii, the parents might introduce it for them. When the kids get older, they remember the fun times with the wii and will become nostalgic and buy nintendo's new box, which will probably be more like the ps or xbox in performance.
Wii sux the best game system nintendo put out was the SNES PERIOD.
A loud outcry from the land of the setting Cinematic sun had drawn the stranger back once more to see what was wrong. There, he found a hardcore gamer, once again ranting and raving. Glancing curiously at the subject of his ire, the stranger noticed that the hardcore had been reading the latest post to Malstrom's blog.
"Pah! Pathetic! Look at that article's content! It's too wordy, and it's not professional at all! Who writes like that?!" the hardcore shouted angrily.
"Many people do. And what," the stranger asked bemusedly, "does professionalism count for? Is there some hidden value in it that will make people appreciate it more than they would an amusing anecdote?"
"What are you, stupid?!" the hardcore yelled, "Everybody knows professionalism is a must! You can't write an article without it! Without professionalism, it's…! It's…! It's a non-article!"
The stranger nodded, smiling. "Yes, I suppose it is. And maybe that's why it's so good."
"Never!" screeched the hardcore frantically.
"Why not?" asked the stranger, "Maybe most people want to read something funny and interesting, and not read yet another predictable article that reads like every other article out there. Perhaps some want variety, amusement, even insight into the fact that entertainment is not tied to a formula."
"Well *I* don't want that!" declared the hardcore huffily, "And anyway, it hardly matters! Malstrom writes like a viral marketer! He doesn't know anything, he doesn't cite any sources, he just says stuff without research!"
The stranger smiled again. "I suppose you haven't read most of his articles, then. Most of them are quite heavy with source citations, more than most 'professional' articles have in fact. Or is it that you don't believe in Blue Ocean Strategy and Innovator's Dilemma?"
"Get-rich-quick scheme books!" the hardcore spat, "I don't need to read such trash! Give me numbers and statistics to crunch!"
The stranger sighed. "Judging the book by its cover, I see. The classic excuse, I don't have to do the research because I know I'm right… Well, I cannot stop that, sadly, but I can at least tell you that you should not pass judgment on something you have no first-hand experience with. And incidentally, this current dalliance by Malstrom isn't meant to be informative so much as elucidating of the situation at large, don't you suppose?"
"Hah! As if!" the hardcore said angrily, "Why would anybody write something like that?!"
The stranger shrugged. "Why does anybody write anything? To please the audience. If the audience is not pleased, what have you accomplished?"
The hardcore stopped. "Well I'm not pleased!" he countered.
"No, I can see that. But perhaps you aren't the author's target market."
"Why wouldn't I be?!" the hardcore asked, angrier than ever. "If he can't write for me, he can't write for anybody!"
"So you are the only authority on writing quality now, then? Be realistic. There are many things you don't enjoy to read, I'm sure, but does that make them bad?"
"Yes!" yelled the hardcore, irate at such blatant ignorance.
The stranger shook his head. "I suppose I cannot help you. Come back to me when you have accepted that people have different tastes, and when you've done your homework." And with that, he departed into the sunrise once more, leaving the raving hardcore to his futile rantings.
Given the amount time you've spent on here trying to defend your "kiddie console," it's quite evident how much time you spend on your wii. How about you not spend your whole day arguing on a forum and actually play the damn thing if it's so fun.
Hey born1first,
While what you say makes sense – to a point (although I have my doubts as to whether you penned that essay – no offense meant if you did) – the fact remains that Nintendo is scarce – but not devoid – of games that have good gameplay AND a satisfying story.
I have all three current-gen consoles – a PS3, 360 and a Wii. While I don't think the Wii is crap – unlike some of the posters above – my experience with the Wii game can be summed up as follows – you can pick up a Wii game (my favourite is Mario Galaxy) and put it down at any time, without feeling the urge to see it through to completion. I enjoyed the hell out of Galaxy, but I can honestly say that it does not offer the maturity and combination of gameplay AND story that some other "hardcore" games offer. While I realize that the term "hardcore" may mean different things to different people, to me it means something a little more mature than cartoony games – albeit with gameplay that might be a little challenging. And if it's mature games I'm looking for, I would much rather prefer those games to not only play good, but also look and sound good.
Anyway, that's my two cents. Not saying you are wrong, but I don't think you are completely right either. Possibly somewhere in between.
Regards,
MTK
Last edited by Thinker on 9/2/2008 4:13:51 PM
You fail to realize there are no GotY canidates for the Wii.
P.S. CoD's graphics for the Wii look horrible compared to PS3 and X360. And I really dunknow how you can possibly run around with a Wiimote.
And Ive never heard of any of the games you listed (Maybe a few)
And I know your Wii is just collecting dust.
No I haven't failed to realize that, I'm well aware of this. Wii has been out for under 2 years and we have plenty of good first party titles that were Game Of The Year candidates. Nintendo has more games coming out in 2009 which should be contenders for that but third parties (this goes for most platforms) there isn't a game of the year candidate, so yes Wii may not have one this year. When does game of the year justify a good game anyways, someone could like a game regardless and that makes it "good" so who cares really?
My point about COD was that its not a direct PS2 port, if you fail to see that the developers for that game actually have put time and detail into that game compared to past Wii games thats pure fanboyism. Not giving Wii credit where it's due (like stronger support than before etc.) is pure ignorance on everyones part. Yeah compared to the other platforms it may look horrible but compared to other Wii games it looks great, which was my main point anyways. Can people stop being dense please?
My Wii is not collecting dust, I don't see how my playing Mario Kart, Brawl and Twilight Princess as well as Madden 09 and Mario Sluggers attributes to dust collecting but sure.
You've never heard of the Wii games I've listed ? What a fu**ing surprise..PS3 fanboys who don't look at other consoles lineups of games before boasting and beating their chest calling themselves hot sh**. Google those games and tell me those are not good third party games the Wii has been missing.
Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 8/30/2008 3:42:55 PM
Watch the language. It seems to me you only wish to get into fights around here, so why bother? Nobody has heard of those games because they're NOT HIGH END GAMES. They're just not. Not when we're playing the likes of GTAIV and MGS4. Get that through your head. It has nothing to do with "PS3 fanboyism" (and STOP playing that card around here; YOU seem to be the only one exhibiting that kind of behavior); it has everything to do with FREQUENCY OF QUALITY. Plain and simple.
Look, I'll ask you one last time: the games you mentioned, the ones you keep saying matter so much, do they or do they NOT pale in comparison to the current and upcoming lineup of top titles for the PS3 and 360? Please just answer that question. Seriously, try to be honest.
Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 8/30/2008 3:44:13 PM