Ben-DutkaAlthough the competition has the hardware lead, Sony says Microsoft can't boast better software growth.
In speaking to IndustryGamers , Sony public relations boss Rob Dyer first admitted to better sales of Microsoft's machine (1.6 360s sold for every 1 PS3 sold), but when it comes to which version of a game to purchase, he says consumers go for the PS3 version due to superior content. He gave the example of Mortal Kombat (the PS3 version boasted Kratos) and the upcoming Battlefield 3 , which fits on one Blu-Ray disc (the 360 version needs two DVDs). Added Dyer:
"Although Microsoft has a 1.6 to 1 index ratio against us [on hardware], we outsold them on Mortal Kombat nearly at a one to one. So that is due in large part to the exclusive content that you're getting on disc. You'll see that happening on almost every case where we've had a game that they've supported with on disc content or with exclusive DLC."
Dyer cited other examples of multiplatform titles that performed better on the PS3 thanks to extra content packed onto the disc, and that includes Medal of Honor , L.A. Noire , and NBA 2K11 . He also indicated Portal 2 's performance, which was assisted by Steam integration and a free copy of the PC version. As for Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 and the timed DLC in favor of Microsoft:
"They're going to be a month exclusive… But they're not running any higher than what the index ratio is – they're right at 1.6. In spite of all the millions that Microsoft has spent on that relationship with Activision, people aren't voting to buy a 360 version of that over and above a PS3 version, given the installed base."
The 360 still holds a significant sales lead in North America but when counting global sales, the gap has shrunk to almost nothing due to strong PS3 sales in Europe and the almost non-existent status of the 360 in Japan. But as always, software is most important, as Dyer tries to tell us.
Wow, I didn't know battlefield 3 was a 2 dvd game. And I had already preordered the 360 version… Just goes to show you that Sony and the PS3 are just getting started…
Getting started? Where have you been?
You can cancel your preorder…I've done it before and it costs you NOTHING.
Why would you get the 360 version when it plays better on the PS3? >.>
Maybe it's just me, but it feels like Sony is adopting the bitchy high school girl approach. First, the "protecting inferior technology" comments, now this. I'm just waiting for Dyer to say, "And have you seen Steve Ballmer's hair?!"
Well, have you?!
I know, right?!
I think they're tired of the misleading press, and are trying to counter it. I just hope that they leave Ballmer's hair alone, humanity isn't ready to delve into that matter.
Aging hipster, those comments made by Sony in headlines is a perfect example of the media responding wrong to the outrage that should've rather have been termed as "Sony Calls Out MS On Their Threatening Policies"
I didn't read near enough headlines In response to MS and their publishing guidelines. Those guidelines that very well try to diminish content augmentation because their DVDs can't store it. Sony is totally right by saying MS is defending an aging technology. But sooner would people not actually think Bout what the response was, rather how it was termed.
Sony has been made to look like a tattle tale, wherein they were actually defending publishers and advancements in technology.
An excellent example of when it's better to take the high road and not sound whiny. But my original comment was primarily in jest, so don't take it too seriously. ^_^
…cause, see, Ballmer has no hair. It's funny.
…..shut up. 😉
Last edited by TheAgingHipster on 9/8/2011 5:32:52 PM
Did Steve Balmer's presence in Resistance 3 surprise you as well? His ape like features are pretty nightmarish =p
Thanks to all for the laughs. I needed them after wrestling with Windows all week.
I reckon the main reason behind Mortal Kombat's sale ratio was because people may have realised how inconvenient the 360's controller is with it's horror for a D-pad when it coems to Beat 'em Up games.
But on everything else, I can pretty much agree.
Mortal Kombat isn't the only example of this, and companies like EA have stated previously that even in the US, the PS3 is responsible for more of their revenue than the 360.
::dons fire retardant suit::
Well, judging by recent trends among the commenting population here I will need the extra protection for this….
Despite the 360 still having stronger hardware unit sales in the US in particular, there are significantly more PS3s actively installed globally – according to 3rd party research many months ago now. So, to see the software sales on the Ps3 growing and outpacing the sales on the 360 (with the exception of key exclusive games on the 360 of course) strongly suggests that despite higher unit sales in the US, 360 sells fewer units of most multi-platform games.
That seems to very clearly say that either there are fewer active 360s in the US than PS3s, or 360 gamers only buy exclusive games and one or two heavily hyped multi-platform shooters, or that as some in the industry have been pointing out for many years now, the PS3 generates more software revenue. For the PS3 to do that, either there is rampant game piracy on the 360, or there are significantly fewer 360s that it appears, or 360 gamers don't (in reality) buy that many games.
Considering the quite appalling XBL Gold subscription rate – less than 50% of all XBL subscriptions are Gold, and the total number of XBL subscriptions (Gold + Silver) is less than 75% of the total 360s ever sold. It seems extremely clear that even in the US, the raw numbers of console hardware unit sales are extremely misleading in terms of the number of active systems, gamers and game buyers.
In other words, it really doesn't matter what the NPD numbers say about the hardware units, the software unit sales reveal a different picture entirely – even in the US.
Fire suits aren't needed if you are speaking the truth.
That post Highlander, is the very definition of it.
@highlander
i agree up to a point. the npd numbers do matter, and so do the lopsided na sales figures in favor of the 360. that's why the market is so damned focused on the 360. i think the 360's dominance in na has even impacted the japanese gaming sector and is a huge factor in sony loosing all those third party exclusives.
Last edited by Excelsior1 on 9/8/2011 10:39:29 AM
Excelsior. The problem is that what I am saying here is, the apparent dominance in the NA market by the 360, is just that, apparent. It's not necessarily factual or supported by software numbers or online use. So apparently more 360 consoles sell, but apparently no one cares to look behind that and see that actually, the PS3 and 360 are close to parity in the NA market in terms of active users and game purchasing. Curious isnt it?
@highlander
i said i agreed with your ananlysis right up to 'it doesn't really matter what the npd numbers say."becuase i think they do matter. another thing i will point out is ms has gained a ton of marketshare this gen at sony's expense. who would have thought at the start of this gen sony would be sitting last place as this gen is whinding down? the answer is no one. so it's not just all rainbows and sunshine for sony. they are in tough fight with extremely well entrenched and funded competitor that has made huge inroads in sony's marketshare in both na and europe.
i mean it's great about the software, but it kind of sucks the ps3 is still sitting in last place. i think the situation in na is just unbeliavable when you think back to how popular the ps1, and ps2 were in na. that wasn't that long ago.
Last edited by Excelsior1 on 9/8/2011 11:37:13 AM
Excelsior, I think you're dancing around the point.
Yes, in pure unit sales of consoles (whether they are alive now, or dead) Sony is apparently losing in the US by a wide margin. but in terms of the performance indicators that illustrate the active console population, the situation – even in NA is closer to parity.
If a third of the 360s ever sold in the US are no longer alive or active, do they count when trying to determine the market share? If so, why? They generate no game sales, and the entire console gaming market is predicated on game sales paying for the console development. That's the business model that allows consoles to be sold at a loss for a year or more initially. So if you're trying to figure out market dominance, the software sales are at least as important as the hardware unit sales. In this case, the software sales tell a different story to the hardware sales. I'm not saying all is rosy for Sony, nor am I making any statement as to whether Sony has lost market share to Microsoft. In the NA and UK markets in particular, it's clear that market shares are different.
The point remains though, software sales for 360 and Ps3 are closer to 1:1 in the US, while hardware sales remain at 1.6:1 in favor of the 360. So, why are the software sales not backing up that apparent dominance? You know, game developers and publishers look at the sales of games more closely than console hardware sales. especially when they see that level of disparity. There is a disconnect between the 360 hardware sales and 360 software sales, and that is something that publishers and developers are very well aware of. From that perspective, the dominance is an illusion.
Last edited by TheHighlander on 9/8/2011 11:56:03 AM
Great posts Highlander, I never thought about the difference in ratios like that. Puts things in perspective and not so negative for Sony in NA.
Highlander, I don't think you're off the mark in the slightest. I've made this point previously in conversation with some of my XBox friends, all of whom mainly play their XBox for the same FPS titles and the few exclusives worth having. I fall into that same category; my 360 is used only for FPS gaming (I like the controller feel) and those titles I can't have on my PS3, which is my primary console for everything else.
But I think you should also consider hardware failure rates as a driver of 360 hardware sales. If you still want to play you copy of Halo: Reach after your 360 bricks, you have to buy a new one, even if there are no new titles coming out that you want to pick up. I think that, coupled to 360 gamer interests (i.e., your and Ben's so-called twitch gaming), really elegantly explains the funky sales trends for 360 hardware and software.
"::dons fire retardant suit::"
Very big lol Highlander…
Q!
"play.experience.enjoy"
here is the august sales forecast in na according to eedar/wedbush.
360 270,000(-23%)
ps3 240,000(+6%)
wii 135,000(-18%)
what's surprising there is price cut mid august only generated +6% growth over the same month last year. note the 360 is still forcasted to be on top despite the price cut.
i have long thought sony should try to do something about the situation in na. i question the wisdom of letting the 360 dominate in the vital na market for so long. there have been a lot of months the ps3 has been outsold almost 2 to 1 in na. in the same article refernced above sony admits that 360's lead in na is massive. if they would have cut the price sooner then maybe it would not be such a uphill fight in na.
the price cut is great and it looks like it made sony way more cometitive but i wish it came a little sooner.
The way you talk, it's as if Sony is dying and their executives are a bunch of idiots because they "let" Microsoft "dominate."
First of all, you love numbers and the NPD so much, I fail to see why you completely neglected a span of about eight months straight where the PS3 outsold the 360 in this country due to superior software and the previous price cut. Secondly, the "massive" hardware gap isn't exactly massive, even in North America, especially when you consider that the 360 has been out for a full year LONGER. You're apparently forgetting that, too.
Thirdly, in terms of ratio ever since 2008, the PS3 has continually sold on par with the 360 with only a few exceptions and in fact, it has easily outsold the 360 in Europe and Japan. In truth, the PS3 basically outsells the 360 in every corner of the globe besides North America, which is why the worldwide sales tallies for both consoles are almost even now.
Fourthly, you don't acknowledge the disastrous reliability of the 360, which has led to multiple purchases of the system by the same individual, thereby skewing the sales numbers. Just because that one person bought it again doesn't mean anything; in terms of NEW customers, Sony has been picking up ground for the past four years.
Fifthly and lastly, Microsoft has gotten into the pockets of developers and publishers everywhere, which is how they stole away exclusivity from various franchises, and how they can afford things like timed DLC for Modern Warfare 3. Sony has said in the past that they refuse to "buy their popularity" and they let their games speak for themselves.
I don't know about you, but I value that much more highly than I do a few extra units sold in the US.
Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 9/8/2011 11:58:50 AM
It makes me think of the state of Illinois. Whenever it's election time and people are out voting the entire map of Illinois will show up red for republicans except for an itty bitty spot in the top right corner which shows up blue…Chicago.
@ben
wow. putting words in my mouth there a little bit. there is a huge difference between using the phrase questioning the wisdom and calling someone a "bunch of idiots" and saying sony is "dying". that's not fair at all. the term massive is exactly what sony used to describe ms lead in na btw. that's a lot more than a few.
i value everything the ps brand offers and i am well aware of 360 hardware problems. surprised that ms did not take more of an image hit for that, but oh well. i am only dissapointed and surprised by sony's loss of marketshare this gen to ms. no fan a ms but it was what it is so to speak. let's just say it kills me sony is in last place becuase i care about them. it's hard to describe i guess. i wish i could as easily blow it as you do.
Last edited by Excelsior1 on 9/8/2011 12:22:06 PM
Your own numbers though don't just say that son is growing sales by 6%, they also say that Sony is growing sales by 6% at the same time that the console hardware market in general is declining buy approximately 20% (based on the decline in Wii and 360 numbers). Sounds to me like that's quite a trend to buck, and that 6% rise (year on year) is actually far more significant because it isn't a 20% drop (year on year) like the numbers for 360 and Wii are.
Numbers and statistics are fun. The trick with all of this information is context, perspective and analysis. When you look only at the base numbers without the benefit of context or analysis, you can get a completely false interpretation of the situation.
@highlander
i agree with that. the price drop did help the ps3 buck a trend and it also helped close the gap on the 360. i am very happy about that.
Last edited by Excelsior1 on 9/8/2011 12:33:39 PM
360 also has had a stripped down option with a $200 entry point. I see this helping their hardware through put, being able to attract the more bottom feeder market. I also see those Arcade 360s as something of a lesser profitable system for MS. without a built in mass storage device, a significant storage limitation may deter potential digital transaction revenue. Something that had been on a major rise lately.
Last edited by Temjin001 on 9/8/2011 1:03:26 PM
also, i know of no 8 month span where ps3 has outsold the 360 in na period. that's not right the only month sony did manage to outsell ms was right after the $100 drop. and it only lasted one month. there have been very few monthly wins for ps3 here na. at least that what the npd numbers show.
Nice dip there MS. man, I'm sure hoping "phase b" of their 360+kinect strategy didn't include massive hardware dips. That short sited joke of a peripherial already appears to be doing nothing for the company. MS is reaping what they sewed by investing in 3rd party timed exclusivity and fad based motion garbage. Gears and a Halo Remake is all that defines their existence it seems now for this year
Did anyone else think that all of the games cited as selling better on the PS3, weren't because of the extra content on the disk, but the fact that they are not shooters, or specifically not CoD? Well MoH is a shooter, but its not like the typical CoD player would be that into it. PS3 users tend to except variate better than 360 owners. I only know three hardcore 360 gamers, all the rest of them are just CoD 24/7.
Agreed. Take away shooters from the 360, the point of owning one would be invalid.
Oh wait..
Take away sales of shooters from both platforms and 360's software sales look positively anemic compared to those of the PS3. Of course you can't really do that, but it's fun to imagine….
why does everyone generalize the Xbox 306 crowd as loving shooters and only shooters?
@fm23
maybe becuase it's true. i know portal 2 and dragonquest2 sold way more on the 360 for example. as did me2, and all thre fallout games. it makes sense since becuase vavle bioware are better know ny 360 users. i have know doubt skyrim will sale more on the 360; that kind of dissproves the shooter only theory.
Last edited by Excelsior1 on 9/8/2011 1:04:04 PM
FM23 –
From my standpoint, most 360 fans I know buy every big shooter and not much of anything else.
There is a reason Halo, Gears and COD sell so big on those systems.
Excelsior1 –
Not really. Skyrim is a first person game.
I would also argue that the 360 controller feels better for FPS titles, especially the Razer controller. But that's a matter of taste.
Dyer is right I have a ps3 and 360 and this year Ive brought about 13 games on ps3 and 2 on 360. Sony is killing them in software and with the free online it just makes my decision easier. I'm not going to even get into exclusives cause there isn't no competition in that area Sony is winning enough said.
Right on Highlander!
It's not surprising that there have been more 360's sold, not with the failure rate they used to have. Every single xbox owner I know has bought multiple replacement xboxes.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that those NPD numbers are a monumental misrepresentation of actual xboxes being used.
I don't think we will see the dominance shown by the PS2 ever again. From here out it's going to be a close race and multiple consoles pretty even as far as global sales. I know I'm getting a PS4. Who is with me!?
I'll be making sure PS4 is a day one purchase….
As will I.
me three. i can actually see a scenario where sony has a stellar luanch becuase of all the first party developers they bring to the table.
as for never seeing the days of p2 dominance…let's just say i think this gen shows anything is possible. don't forget about the ps1. it was very popular as well.
Last edited by Excelsior1 on 9/8/2011 12:45:17 PM
I think it could happen =)
A very important thing to remember with the 360 sales numbers is that besides all those RROD'ed replacements MS counts, is that MS also gave away tons of them at that huge Times Square N.Y.C. Kinect launch party, also given away to the Girls Clubs of America, and Various TV shows such as Jimmie Kimmle, Ophrah, The Ellen Dengeneris Show, & the Jimmie Fallon Show, plus that huge national Burger King contest & "too numerous to count" other contests & events.
And we all know how MS likes to fudge their shipped numbers as being sold numbers.
I don't mind at all if the PS3 is the underdog in this sales race. I rather think it's cool. I've always rooted for the underdog anyway.
@beambbom
i wish i was more like you. i will admit i despise ms and hate that sony is the underdog to them in any way. i mean competition is good but why does have to be ms?