Ben-DutkaEver since I heard Sony was working on the next PlayStation, I've been a little concerned about the project.
While I always love all these great advances in technology and artistry, and I'm a huge proponent of titles like Heavy Rain and L.A. Noire , many of the new crazes this generation just haven't done it for me…and that includes digital distribution, multiplayer and motion sensing. I mentioned this before but now I'm appealing to Sony-
Please don't forget about your long-time fans who aren't constantly playing online, who don't necessarily think all games should have motion capabilities, who don't believe that a file full of "games" is the same thing as having a shelf full of actual physical games . I suppose, from a business standpoint, digital distribution and the more social aspects of gaming are a must for the future, but please don't forget all those gamers who haven't changed all that much over the years.
This isn't about living in the past or refusing to evolve; I believe a company can both evolve and continue to cater to its long-time fans who aren't all that fascinated with the many supposed "improvements." Square Enix couldn't understand this and look at their financial position. When it comes to hardware, if you completely change that which has made the PlayStation so popular for so long, that will be a fatal mistake. By all means, adapt to the changing market trends and landscape. I know it's necessary.
But I'm sure you can both acclimate to the altered environment and satisfy those who aren't looking for much more besides a piece of hardware that gives designers and artists more room to maneuver.
hopefully they only have a few hen pecks on their drawing board…cause i am NOT ready for a new game system….just sayin.
If they wait until everyone wants the new PS4 we will be playing the same old PS3 with old tech for a few years.
It's a good time for them to start. As long as Microsoft can keep their greasy hands off Sony's ideas.
*Starts slow clap*
*gets on his feet and claps with tears in his eyes*
At least it's Sony making the PS4, and not Square-Enix! LOL
Seriously though, I'm with you 100% on this one. While we saw motion control gaming go mainstream this console generation, I am sure that most hardcore gamers out there still prefer the standard controller. I myself own the PlayStation Move and I prefer to use it to play Heavy Rain, but I still use the Dualshock 3 controller to play my other games. I wouldn't mind if Sony would improve on the current motion sensing technology that the Move currently employs, but I do hope that they focus more on what has been successful for them for a long time.
While I still do not see the need for a PS4, Sony is probably right with starting the R&R for their next home console. I do hope that they listen to the fans, but I don't think they'll disappoint me that much once they announce the inevitable PlayStation 4.
I'm sure R & D for the PS4 began on November 11, 2006, if not earlier.
p.s. LOL @ R&R. Oops. 😀
Last edited by Fane1024 on 5/30/2011 11:39:47 PM
@Fane: Thanks for catching that. Looks like work is catching up to me. Haha!
I think Sony has handled combining new with old very well this generation, there's the PSmove with lots of great games, great multiplayer games, a plethora of downloadable content and yet we still have great old fashioned single player games like uncharted and infamous(to name a few out of many).
So long story short, I'm not worried.
Last edited by matt99 on 5/30/2011 9:23:48 PM
except removing B/C
They did a great job catering to everyone with the ps3, I don't see why ps4 would be any achilles heal to any one
Ben, you truly speak for a lot of people, myself included.
I couldn't have said it better.
yea, there's still a lot of PS3 left to see before we need to up the ante.
As long as they keep the physical disc based games and improve in the graphical dept. ill be all for it. Im a game collector so i wouldn't appreciate if they went totally digital. As far as the PS3 goes, i am and always have been a satisfied customer so to me they've always been all about the consumer, but im easy to please so…
Sony shouldn't be intimidated into speeding their production in order to keep up with any up and coming console especially project cafe. Why would anyone be scared of a Mario installment with the graphical prowess of Uncharted. Thats like trying to be afraid of a bunny with fangs and dragon wings. they need to just take their time and let the PS3 completely run its course.
I'm not concerned with Sony changing their marketing behavior. Their product line has been catering to a broad spectrum of gamer.
Their Move controller wasn't set to "give away the farm" like MS has positioned the KINECT to do. Effectively, polarizing their audience into two types: casual simple minded entertainment and online competitive war games(can't loose their LIVE fan base without keeping their service a priority to the shooter base…here Activision here's XX millions of dollars for exclusive CoD map packs)
Anyway, I doubt Sony would ever condone an agenda too narrow the broad scope of their offerings at the expense of alienating segments of their consumers to have them go somewhere else.
In fact, they've been cultivating a complete Sony eco-system. Their PSone titles are being revisited on PS3, PSP, and Xperia. And the massive capacity of Blu Ray essentially bars out any short term plan to migrate their users to a digital only format. I, for one, would love to trade shelf space for digital. I don't care to have people see my gaming library, and I love the convenience of having my entire gaming entertainment efficiently stored in one neat gaming station (placing discs into trays is so horse 'n carriage =p ) I just hate all the DRM and strings attached bull crap that comes along with digital stuff. Sony has been investing heavily into franchises and software offerings that serve to bolster their identity in the marketplace. One that couldn't be easily bartered and lost in a sour negotiation with a major third party studio leveraging their weight to pull strings in their favor.
Last edited by Temjin001 on 5/30/2011 9:54:59 PM
That was said so accurately. I hope they don't forget about us fans who has followed them for so long. If I can't play with a controller I hold with both my hands and can't have a physical collection of my games I would be screwed and be stuck with the PS3 for the rest of my life. I would rather give up too digital media then my duel analog controller. I would never give up to motion gaming completely.
Im ready brah!
I don't think they would ditch us yet but I have to say I feel very forgotten this generation. My favorite genre died, physical media was threatened, motion controls made huge waves, I have to pay for DLC to play all of a game, exclusives went weaksauce multiplat and multiplayer now drives most game development cycles.
Whew, yeah I hope they keep me in mind when making the PS4 too.
Exclusives still drive pretty good, it's one particular genre where multi-plat is where it's at. As for the death of a genre, you can only be referring to the JRPG, and they are not dead, except in the West.
Jrpg's aren't dead ,but they aren't nearly as abundant as they were a mere gen ago.. The same goes for platformers and survival horror games. Which really sucks , because those are my three favourite genres..
Cole,
Turn based JRPGs all but died this generation. There have been so few releases on the PS3 in this genre that you literally can count them on the fingers of one hand. Contrast that with the PS2.
*Sigh*
Don't remind me..Proper turnbased jrpg's can only be found on the DS and PSP nowadays..
I just hope Sony makes it very powerful. With a real GPU and no CPU bottle neck. Next gen will be amazing.
Saywhatnow?
Are you suggesting that the PS3 lacks a real GPU or has a CPU bottleneck?
The RSX was at the time it was launched more powerful than the nVidia 7800GTX – not to shabby – at the time. And since the Cell boasts better main memory bandwidth than any current generation PC and has internal bandwidth to burn, it's hardly a bottleneck either. Just wondering why you'd bother to request both those things when Sony is not known for producing poorly executed hardware.
BigMidget… it is not so much that the PS3 does not have adequate hardware when one considers the CPU and GPU separately… the main issues for me, and a lot of people, have been the difficulty and getting the best out of the PS3 and how long it has taken some developers to get to grips with the machine, and secondly the greatest of its "bottlenecks"… too little RAM!
The CELL and RSX can crunch through a lot of data, and can produce some stunning results… the issue is the delivery medium; i.e. streaming textures and other gaming data from a "slow" blu-ray / hard disk does not help, and the difficulty in optimising the game engine for a low memory platform, which the PS3 has now become.
If the PS3, even in its current form factor, had 2Gigs of RAM on the mother board… you would see a lot of the current visual artifacts we see in current game engines, such as pop up, LOD resolution and texture distortion all but eradicated. Even first party Sony studios are trying to "squeeze" out what they can from system because they have to spend huge amounts of time figuring out how to get data into the system at a decent rate to be processed by the chipset.
The chipset is very fast, but the mechanic delivery of the data and the bandwidth needed to get the data to the CELL and RSX for processing, can take time, and cause issues as we have seen visually in some games, especially the multi-platform titles.
The PS3 would be fine for another 5 years had we had more RAM… Sony should have not skimped on this.
They should have not tried to make a console that "tries" to do "everything", and then remove features along the way or cut things out. All it does is erk people. It would have been better to have had a PS3 that was an awesome game machine that was built with this in mind, with enough memory to give it a long and fruitful shelf life… and not have to hear of developers struggling to "squeeze" what they can in becomes of tight memory conditions.
Crytech spoke a lot about this whilst developing Crysis2 for consoles, and how challenging it was compared to working with the PC…
Q!
"play.experience.enjoy"
@Qubex
Hey. you want more ram ? the machine price was 600$ at it launch and people cried about it.
please be a little reasonable. sony cut or removed
the features you are talking about to reduce the price. and other os was removed because you know why. as for the developers complaining about the specs. need I to remained
you that every three months a new cpu is released and a new gpu also. if you brought a top first party developer that what have been
fine with me. crytech = lol. they didn't optimized their first game for PCS and you want
them not to complain about the ps3 memory.
sucker punch will own them once infamous 2 get
released.
Last edited by Wissam on 5/31/2011 3:36:44 AM
I believe Qubex do have a valid point here. You talk about cutting price Wissam, but how much more would it really cost to, say, double the ram? memory was not *that* expensive back then, relatively speaking…
Beamboom,
The system memory in the PS3 is XDR RAM, not standard DDR/DDR2/DDR3, even today XDR memory isn't cheap. It's incredibly fast, but not cheap. When the PS3 was launched I believe that the cost of the XDR memory in the PS3 was in the region of $50, so you're really saying Sony should have lost another $450 million in the first year since they sold about 9 million consoles, that is what it would have cost them. That's plain unreasonable.
It's awfully easy to set here 5+ years after the design was finalized and whine about the amount of memory, but you know, the 360 isn;t really any better off. despite having a unified memory architecture, it has to cordon off adequate memory for it's visual assets too, leaving more or less 256MB for games and resident OS to share. So let's not kid ourselves here. I also challenge the comments about BluRay and streaming. the data transfer rates and straight data read rates of a BluRay device are not poor at all, the latency su8cks, as it does with most optical media. However since the drives in the PS3 were not the 48X DVD drives that sound like a ducted turbofan aircraft on take off, they do have potentially longer waits for random access to a specific spot on the disk. Once they appropriate data has been found, the read rates from BluRay are more than sufficient for most instances. the one time I've seen it break down in a game was in Burnout Paradise, and that streaming issue affected both platforms (PS3 and 360) and was solved by caching to the HDD.
Last edited by TheHighlander on 5/31/2011 11:58:17 AM
It was *that* expensive? Wow I did not know. I stand corrected.
It must be said though, I don't think +/- $50 would make a difference in me buying the console or not.
I know, but a the time the world was already incandescent with rage over the sticker price. Adding another $50 to the price would have been impossible, and taking another half billion dollar loss was suicidal. Sony really pushed the envelope in terms of what is in the box.
I think people (in general) forget just how new the technology in the PS3 was. XDR hadn't been used in anything before and was by far the fastest DRAM around. CellBE was just leaving pre-production, BluRay was still stuttering out of the prototype stage. Actually RSX was about the only 'mature' element there, but it was a real challenge to make at over 300 million transistors.
I know, but a the time the world was already incandescent with rage over the sticker price. Adding another $50 to the price would have been impossible, and taking another half billion dollar loss was suicidal. Sony really pushed the envelope in terms of what is in the box.
I think people (in general) forget just how new the technology in the PS3 was. XDR hadn't been used in anything before and was by far the fastest DRAM around. CellBE was just leaving pre-production, BluRay was still stuttering out of the prototype stage. Actually RSX was about the only 'mature' element there, but it was a real challenge to make at over 300 million transistors.
I am with you Ben.
There are just way too many things that could go wrong with having all digital games. Think about it….Hard drive crashes, lose your games. If you don't have internet access, you can't download the games. Playstation yellow lights, you lose your games.
I would be willing to bet that when they go all digital their will be so much security in place to make sure the game is locked to the specific console it will be like Singstar songs. I lost over 100 songs when my PS3 bricked. I spent hours on the phone but could never get anyone to transfer the songs to my new PS3. Digital gaming will be the same way.
yup, a complete disaster all round.
I think it will be locked to your activations, and the content will be encrypted and signed in such a way that it's only usable on a system you have activated, and if it's copied by someone else, it not only does not work, but is signed and therefore traceable.
I look forward to digital game distribution and gettign rid of disc games and move on with cartilidge since lasers break easy.
You're going to somehow gain cartilage with games in your flesh?
…And keep the Dualshock =)
And the PS4 discussions and ideas have begun, it seems.
I didn't think they'd start this early.
they started earlier than this, people can't leave well enough alone
Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 5/30/2011 10:51:02 PM
I'm not complaining by the way, just a bit surprised and actually looking forward to the future discussions. That's all.
They started for PS4 a while later than they did for PS3. We were talking about definite PS3 hardware for nearly two years before it arrived.
Yeah, how DARE people discuss the future of their favorite products.
I see from the Vita rumors that Sony learned something from the PSP versus DS:
Match the competition on price.
And so it seems that Vita is going to be at the same price as the 3DS.
Thats good.
As far as a PS4:
Game Developers are getting a handle on PS3 Cell development and so for PS4 I expect a more powerfull Cell or a dual Cell setup with much faster GPU or 16 SPEs working together not needing a separate GPU.
I also expect 4 GB of system RAM so as to keep the price at 299 dollars at launch.
I expect a Nintendo Project Cafe to be 399 dollars at launch.
I also expect a 299 dollar offering from Sony and Microsoft to let the wind out of Nintendos sails.
I also expect full B/C with PS3 games and continued support of blu ray disc based games and movies.
I also expect the new PS4 hardware to support two hundred gigabyte blu ray discs as this will make it un-atractive for the digital only crowd to try and push a no disc based agenda.
Hmmm. May not happen but definitely not out of the realm of possibility.
I mean, I'm looking forward to digital distribution of games… in the distant future. I understand that Sony needs to prep for the nex gen/future, so they will present it to us, and as the years and gaming systems go by, they'll eventually get the digital distribution method down. I'm sure it'll be something Cloud-based, where you won't have to worry about losing your games and/or saves because your system crashes; they'll be stored on the Cloud servers, so all you'll need to do is purchase a new system, enter your credentials for verification of usage, and you're good to go.
Am I ready for that change? Not yet, not fully. The NGP will probably be a big step in that direction, aside from what they're already doing now with the mini games, games like WipeOut, and DLC on the PS3. But they realized that that is where technology is headed, probably where the competition is headed, and where the rest of the world is headed (Apple/iTunes does digital everything).
But in all this, I would like Sony to remember what got them there in the first place. I would like for Sony to keep in mind the train of thought that brought about the original PlayStation, and what followed with the PS2. There were ground-breaking games on both systems, games that catered to gamers. For the most part, Sony has provided that with the PS3, but it's been like the tides at sea in some areas. It's kind of like they're grasping at straws for the next big thing, and you can't blame 'em, when you have the weakest system this gen sell like it was crack, with something that appeared to be a gimmick, and pretty much took over for a bit. So I'm sure Sony's like "What else do people like that we don't know about? And how did we not know that such a simple gimmick could turn non-gamers into (at least) a casual gamer?" So for as successful as they've been this gen (and I believe Sony has been), it's probably baffled on so many levels about what would bring sure success in the next round. Sure they have top franchises, and Sony's been cranking out new ones, and they've got partner studios and devs that create exclusives, but then there's that X factor; they don't want to be thrown in for another loop again. The one thing that Sony is sure of, is a digital future. All I can say is, we'd better be ready.
The difficulty in presenting digital media, especially on a console, is the size of these games. Console games are much bigger than portable games. I mean, they're filling up some blu-rays and even doin' double-layer, so I'm sure that won't be a fun game to download. Our service providers aren't giving that kind of bandwidth, at least not on a mass public level, and anyone who is getting the bandwidth probably feels like they have a whole in their pocket, or must be on a ridiculous project for a high-end organization.
All in all, it seems as though an all-digital console system is not viable yet, but who knows? Technology takes leaps and bounds at times, usually after we've plateaud for awhile.
But fortunately, it seems Sony has made the PS3 powerful enough where they can build on what they have on it, for the next system, and hopefully not start in the red next time around.
Last edited by Aranha on 5/30/2011 11:21:31 PM
IMO, both 3D & motion sensing will be the mainstream norm by the next 10 years, and I'm all for it.
But I don't want ever want to see physical media leave in my lifetime, it would put an end to my whole cart & disc based gaming collections as I know it today.
Oh, and I want all my future PS's to be B/C with all past PS's too, that should be a "#1 must"!!!!!!
As for the future, I want to see total augmented reality coming from our future numbered PS's.
Also, I hope to still be around to see the PS9 bare fruition, and made the very same exact way Sony perceived it to be, way back in the beginning of the PS2 era.
"I want that all-mighty powerful crystal sphere"!
Last edited by BikerSaint on 5/30/2011 11:26:16 PM
BikerSaint, how do you qualify this? I am sure there are many people who are equally not interested in 3D or motion sensing. Actually for it is more motion sensing… I will firmly sit on my chubby buttocks and play games using my controller… I don't want to be wafting through the lounge doing a derivative of Tron ballet while trying to play my games…
Any person walking past the house and looking into my living room will think I have a serious issue… a serious mental issue that is…
Q!
"play.experience.enjoy"
PS3 is very loyal to their Fans.
Alert: the Blog says full PSN service returns "this week".
ha you got me by 2 minutes
Last edited by frylock25 on 5/30/2011 11:53:23 PM
That's why I only wrote one line. 😛
I'm usually the one who gets ninja'd since I use the DS3 to "type".
posted by sony:
SONY AND SONY COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT ANNOUNCE FULL RESTORATION OF PLAYSTATION®NETWORK SERVICES
Tokyo, May 31, 2011 – Sony Corporation and Sony Computer Entertainment (SCE) announced today that Sony Network Entertainment International (SNEI, the company) will fully restore all PlayStation®Network services in the Americas, Europe/PAL territories and Asia, excluding Japan, Hong Kong, and South Korea by the end of this week. The company will also resume Music Unlimited powered by Qriocity™ for PlayStation®3 (PS3®), PSP® (PlayStation®Portable), VAIO and other PCs. Details for Japan, Hong Kong, and South Korea as well as the remaining services on Qriocity will be announced as they become available.
The company implemented considerable security enhancements to the network infrastructure, as well as conducted testing of the payment process and commerce functions. The first phase of PlayStation Network and Qriocity restoration began on May 15 in the Americas and Europe/PAL territories, followed by Japan and Asian countries and regions on May 28, when the company brought partial services back online. With this partial restoration users were able to access to some of the services such as online game play, account management, friend lists and chat functionality were restored. The full restoration of PlayStation Network as well as part of services to become available on Qriocity will include:
• Full functionality on PlayStation®Store
• In-game commerce
• Ability to redeem vouchers and codes
• Full functionality on Music Unlimited powered by Qriocity for PS3, PSP, VAIO and
other PCs
• Full functionality on Media Go
Customers will be able to purchase and download games and video content from the PlayStation®Store on PS3 or PSP. In addition, consumers will have full access to Music Unlimited powered by Qriocity through PS3, PSP, VAIO and other PC’s. Service restoration of Video on Demand powered by Qriocity™ and Music Unlimited powered by Qriocity for a variety of network-enabled Sony devices will be announced later.
“We have been conducting additional testing and further security verification of our commerce functions in order to bring the PlayStation Network completely back online so that our fans can again enjoy the first class entertainment experience they have come to love,†said Kazuo Hirai, Executive Deputy President, Sony Corporation. “We appreciate the patience and support shown during this time.â€
The company will be offering customers a “Welcome Back†package of services and premium content to all registered PlayStation Network* and Qriocity account services. The details of this program will continue to be detailed regionally.
* Only available for those countries with access to PlayStation®Store.