Ben-DutkaIt seems like every publisher and game maker is looking at ways to turn a profit in the used game market.
We already have EA's Online Pass program, THQ recently announced it would bundle access to online play with new copies of WWE Smackdown vs. Raw 2011 and charge used game players a fee for online admission, and Activision has also expressed a desire to take similar steps. Now, it's Sony's turn. During a recent GamesIndustry.biz interview , SCEE head man Andrew House said the company "supports publisher incentives to monetize the second-hand game market through charging for online play." Said House:
"On the principle of making online portions of the game available or unlocked from the disc-based release for a fee, we're broadly supportive of that. And we're exploring actively the same option for our own content."
Although it has been refuted since, we had heard that Activision would install a subscription service to play their popular Call of Duty franchise online, but House said Sony would have difficulty adopting that method. House makes a point of saying they have a 70% connection rate across consoles concerning the Network, and he attributes that number to the lack of a price barrier. And remember, this only relates to used games, so it won't affect those who typically purchase their games new.
Why is everyone so angry with Gamestop? I love Gamestop – I use them all the time to unload my used games, although only when they have a 50% extra trade-in credit or similar offer going on. I never buy (used or new) from Gamestop, I usually just accumulate store credit until there's enough to just go in and buy hardware tax free. For e.g., I used the 200$ trade-in offer for trading in my 60GB PS3 Phat and got a slim for 0$ out of pocket – just used 100$ of store credit. I still have about 370$ of store credit left which will now help in buying both Kinect and Move (again tax free). Games I buy new but usually after a week or 2 (except for ones I'm really waiting for like GOW3 or Uncharted) of release since they usually dip by 10-20$. The money still goes to the devs, just not the full 60$.
i buy new games ONLY if they offer a demo on the psn. otherwise, used all the way.
@ Underdog, Highlander, and Anyone Else Defending These Entitlements,
One question. Have you ever bought a used game? Be honest now.
What entitlements? The entitlement of a creator to the fruits of their labor? Or the Entitlement Generation that wants everything for free?
Come now Orvis, I spent a long time answering your challenge, and all you do is shift the ground and pick at the edges.
Since you asked, I don't buy games 'used' unless the game is unavailable 'new'. When I do buy a 'used' game, I do everything I can to buy from an individual, not GameStop or the like.
I'm not picking at the edges.
I honestly want to know if you and the others EVER buy used games? It is an honest question.
sure he does. he's saint highlander who does no wrong…there can only be one…(movie sucked by the way)
@Orvisman
Arguing with this "person" is pointless. he says everyone else only sees thing from their point of view, but that's like the pot calling the kettle black since he's the exact same way.
Last edited by DeejayDeez on 8/26/2010 12:38:59 PM
That's uncalled for DeejayDeez.
@Orvis,
No problem. I've answered. I understand the reason for asking, and I would never describe myself as a saint. But, I've written software (not games) for a living before, and when you see things from that side of the issue, it changes your perspective a little.
Well, that explains a lot.
Although I've been in publishing all my adult life, I've never had a problem buying used books or comics (and I worked for Marvel briefly).
I have discretionary income; but like BikerSaint (We Jersey guys should compare collections some time Biker.), I'm a collector (the same thing could be said about books/comics at one time); so I have to stretch my gaming dollar somehow. It has nothing to do with being cheap. If you guys only knew how much I spent on gaming every year.
Anyway, I don't know how you post so many long posts so often throughout the day every day. That one long post of mine took up a good chunk of my morning. Now, I have to publish another nine articles today to earn my paycheck. 😉
I type fast, and I have a window open most of the day. Sometimes I have a slow day, and can comment more, sometimes I have busy days and can't comment at all. sometimes I spend too much time commenting and work longer as a result. It's all about fitting it into the daily schedule.
His profile says he’s an IT Professional who works in a cube…which means he doesn’t do much unless there’s a problem with the network or someone’s computer. I know a lot of guys in IT so that’s just how it is…so I’m not bashin’ just explaining the “free time to blog†thing.
I only have 1 used game on my shelf. Post PS1 era. Everything PS1 and earlier I got used well after they were unavailable new.
The used game I own is a PS2 game, Killzone 1. The only reason I got it used was actually forced, believe it or not. lol. I rented Killzone from Blockbuster back when they had no late charges. I lost the game somehow, and couldn't return it. I eventually found it about a month or so later and returned it. Apparently Blockbuster charged it to my account, and I could no longer pay the reshelving fee. So I was forced to pay for the game, which they gave to me.
That is the only used game of the last 2 gen's I own.
I actually bought my PSP used, and the guy gave me some crapola game with it. I've never touched it, so it wasn't illegal use. lol. But to be honest, the reason I didn't play it wasn't for legal reasons… It's because it's metacritic score is like a 3/10 or something. I didn't even trade it in for store credit. I just threw it out. I would probably have only been worth $1 for trade in anyways. lol.
DeejayDeez, I'm afraid Highlander is the one not attacking adhomonim it terms of debates. it is you.
I'm not sure why the two DJ's are such mean people…
The last PS1 titles I bought new were Final Fantasy Chronicles and Final Fantasy IX. Damn good purchase too, and I feel it's one of the most worthy purchases that I've bought brand new along with Kingdom Hearts 2 that I had in Lay-away back when Wal-Mart still had the service. :p Hell, I've got Birth by Sleep Pre-Ordered and already paid for, just waiting for me to pick it up on the 7th. Awesome feeling, yes. Those kinds of games, to me, are worth buying brand new. I'll be buying Versus XIII brand new and pre-ordering that as soon as it becomes available to be pre-ordered, and make it the collectors/special edition as soon as that is available as well :p
I have noticed that a lot of the most vociferous posters with this article are relatively new and unfamiliar names at PSX. I also notice that this particular discussion has taken on a much more personal note, which is unusual here.
The frequency of my posting here has been questioned, suggestions about my work ethic are implied. If that's the way it goes here and people are so concerned about the frequency of my commenting, perhaps I should simply stop.
Orvisman, please feel free to contact me via PM on the forum, your posts are *not* the reason I feel this way.
Sorry to "hear" that. Don't let them get to you.
Yeah, don't let them bother you. Some people have disagreed with you and me very civilly, and it's been a fun discussion with them.
However, it's clear some people know no other way to argue other than by calling names and insulting you via made up assumptions. It's typical high school behavior and often found in games like MW2. (You know… the people who think they're originally funny by claiming they did your mom or something of the sort)
Highlander, you clearly have more education than those who resort to harassment, and the way you argue your points is clear about who the more intelligent person is. Most people I'm sure could disagree with you but still see you make more valid points than people who have been stabbing in the dark at you. They're just kids with $10 mixing programs on their computers that make them feel creative and musical. I wouldn't let them bother you, an actual professional.
I mean, come on. I have tonnes of time to comment on here. I don't get paid by the hour. I get a salary. All that matters is that I deliver the stats. Which I do! (Best exit stats in the organization @ 100% success rate over the last year. Target is 70%. I'm doing well.) I'm pretty sure I have a more meaningful and fruitful career than the ones staking claims on your profession. Maybe if they work hard, they can advance high enough that they can delegate and chill out on a comp from time to time.
Last edited by Underdog15 on 8/26/2010 3:11:38 PM
It's my fault. It slipped off my radar and I didn't really watch the Comments, which I should've done. I knew it would get personal the way it was going.
Just ignore the people who are here to cause trouble. You know they don't last long.
Guys, it's not that they're getting to me. I'm honestly too old and life is too short to let folks like that get to me. It's more a case of it's just not very much fun.
Anyway, do not worry. I will admit though, I am profoundly saddened by some of the attitudes I have seen on display commenting on this article.
Seriously, it's all more or less a clash of personal opinions. Personal opinions are just opinions, and this is a heated subject, lol, no big deal really. Ones who may disagree with you in comments on this article may later agree whole heartily with you with another subject. I will admit I'm one who has disagreed with you, but that doesn't mean I hate you or something, loosen up.
Last edited by DeathOfChaos on 8/28/2010 12:02:33 AM
No. I won't 'loosen up'.
When people start going to your forum profile and pulling things out of that and then throwing them at you in comments here and making insinuations, that crosses a line. If you can't see that, that is *your* problem.
Thank you kindly for your advice, which I won't be taking. Oh, sorry, if I sound angry, you bet I am. Wonder how you'd feel in my shoes?
Highlander,
I won't try to tell you how to feel, but you do help a lot of people, including me. So please don't go anywhere or post less because of people with no manners or moral compass.
Ok, Highlander, people are just dumbasses. They don't know the first thing about whatever job it is you do, people who do that are just plain retarded. Your personal information has nothing to do with arguments in comments, and if you get mad over people saying crap you know isn't true, then what's the point? How about taking down all your personal information on your page. For Christ's sake, do something instead of acting all pissy and complaining about, lol. Good, you're angry, but that doesn't prove or solve anything. Just delete your personal life details from your page and it wont happen again, damn, grouch…
@Deathofchaos,
I have taken action.
I've been on the 'net for more than a decade, I'm well aware of how to protect myself. I've also dealt with truly nasty, truly personal attacks and persistent attacks. One thing I have learned is that trying to identify and stop such individuals is nearly impossible, so avoidance is best. It is never advisable to become too comfortable in one place, that is when you drop your guard.
Too many spoiled people seem to have the viewpoint that:
"I should get everything cheap or free.
Bands don't deserve to make money for creating music. Game developers don't deserve to make money for creating games. Movie studios don't deserve to make money for creating films."
You're nothing but a thief when you steal something that people create and you're even worse than that when you complain about it.
As for buying something used, you certainly shouldn't expect to get everything you would if you bought it new.
Personally, I feel this whole screw the consumer thing is going too far. I completely understand both sides of the argument, but here's the catch. Game dev's do deserve to get paid. Understood. I agree. But if they are worried about places like Gamestop taking all their profits.. then lower the cost of games sooner. Take Uncharted 2 for instance, on day 1 that game sold like 120 billion copies. So, the dev's got paid. Well, after that initial onslaught.. they should have thought about things. After the game had been out for say.. 6 -8 weeks.. they should have lowered the price. If they had lowered the price to say $29.95.. that would have not only sold more copies, but would have also helped people in their decision to buy it new or not. They already made 10's of millions of dollars off the game. And I'm just using U2 as an example.
Now on the other hand, Gamestop.. is screwing over people and making huge profits selling used games. Ok.. understood. But who's fueling that whole business? No offense, but it's ignorant people and thieves. If you just bought a game for $60 and you complete it in less than a week.. you have 3 choices. 1. Keep the game. 2. Sell it to a Gamestop type place and get screwed. 3. Sell on Amazon or eBay and get the going rate, which is what the game is worth to the end consumer. Well, if the game has been completed.. you might not ever play that game again. So, why would you want to keep it? If you take it to Gamestop and they offer you $25 bucks for a game you just paid $60 bucks for.. why would you take it? And people sell their games online cause they get a much better price for them.. right? So, why doesn't SONY buy your used games back.. and resell them for a much smaller profit margin? After all, they would be making money, and be able to share that money with the dev's. And at the same time they would be choking Gamestop to death. So.. it would be a win-win, and you the consumer could be proud to know that you are helping the dev's get paid for all their hard work.
It's just not fair to screw the end consumer out of their hard earned money. Sony said that they would never charge for online play. Then they turn around and let other companies do just that. Now most companies are jumping on the "screw the consumer" bandwagon.
If they are so mad about losing revenue due to people buying used games.. then why the hell not just be the seller? You see it all the time with car makers..
Or have realistic prices on their games. Let's be serious.. that stupid Naughty Bear game should have been $19.95 at launch. And if you paid like $60 for that.. then you have more problems then saving money. If the dev's earned it, I have no problem what-so-ever paying $59.95 + tax for a brand new game. Games like Castlevania Lords of Shadow and Fallout New Vegas I have even pre-ordered and paid for in full already. Because I know that those games will be worth every cent. But if you make a football game that will only be replaced by a new version of the same football game every so many months, and then are shocked as to why people would rather pay $10-20 for it used, thats just greed.
It's all about greed really, when it comes down to it. Someone earlier even said about text in books disappearing. Well, thats true.. ever heard of Kindle? Yeah, screw paying for a pre-read copy of a paperback when I can pay more to read it on a mobile device. Riiight.
Anyway, my point being.. why should we, the end consumer, have to pay to a trashed business model? These people look at us like we are batteries, and they do not care how much they milk us for. They do not care at all about their customers.. only about money and numbers. There is a massive crash coming soon.. and I hope to hell your all wearing your helmets. If you don't know of what I speak of.. then ask your father.
History repeats itself. Learn that well.
You, my friend, are the wisest of this article's comments. Awesome. [applaud] No words can explain the pure awesomeness that is the essence of this explanation, you are king.
After reading this article and the long long list of comments a number of things are glaringly obvious.
firstly this is nothing more than an obvious cash grab. Plain and simple. Trolls like "TheHighlander" can try to candycoat it all they want but there is no excuse. The thing is its not even a new story. Some in the industry has gone as far as calling used games "piracy" such is clearly not the case and in todays litigeous world such unwarranted accusations are unwise and thats as generous as it gets. Devs / publishers get paid from selling games & DLC and they get paid ONCE per copy sold same as the rest of us. If they dont like that then they can feel free to work elsewhere.
More importantly Sony has always made a big deal in their marketing about "free online play". Since this new "policy" of Sony and its devs is a direct contradiction this if enforced will lead to legal action being taken against sony. The phrase Bait & Switch comes to mind. The whole point is you cannot sell a product with "feature X" and later remove that feature with no legal basis. "we want money on used games" is not a legal argument and will not standup in court anywhere.
@TheHighlander, I am not done with you. neither is anyone else as evidenced by the massive number of downvotes you've received. Your "arguments" are illogical at best and written by a 1st year MBA wannabe. I'll give you a hint, real human beings in normal conversation do NOT constantly spout corporate marketing mantras. Nobody believes your bizarre excuses. BTW, another hint to the unwise. If Gamestops legal department should ever get hold of your real ID then be very afraid. Defamation lawsuits are a very unpleasant experience.
To come to the point it is glaringly obvious for all to see that you are a rep for either a dev or a console manufacturer. To claim otherwise is a bald faced lie. Now is the time to take a long hard look at yourself. Does it really make sense for you to textually assault your paying customers with abusive ad hom attacks? there can only be one answer to that which is a resounding NO! You really need to get a job elsewhere but with your lousy insolent attitude you'd be very hard pressed to find one.
Last edited by Ryoko_Demon on 9/6/2010 12:15:53 PM