Ben-DutkaSony put a big emphasis on the PlayStation Move and their new 3D technology at E3 this year, but there's one very relevant question that remains, and one I assume Sony is even asking themselves at this very moment: "what is the right price for such technology?"
Firstly, Sony did admit that Move and 3D are expected to have two very different lifecycles in terms of length, which makes sense. 3D needs time to catch on, and it won't really explode until the option is available on most HDTVs. This is simply because few people, even the most avid gamers, are expected to head right out and drop a significant chunk of change on a new TV right now. This is even less likely when that consumer has likely seen little or nothing of 3D gaming. The Move, on the other hand, is hoped to deliver within the year, and Sony wants to keep feeding it with great new software. It's likely that Microsoft puts Kinect on the same competitive footing with Move but the question is, what are gamers willing to pay to jump on board? Furthermore, when will they finally decide to take the plunge?
The full Move package, including the PlayStation Eye, will be priced at $99.99, although you can purchase the individual pieces for less. Retailers are saying Kinect will cost $150 . First-party Move titles will go for $39.99 and we just have to assume the third-party ones will hold a $49.99 price tag (perhaps the same goes for Microsoft). Now, are these appropriate price points for such technologies? Is this acceptable to in-the-know gamers looking to embrace new ideas? Is it enough to lure Wii loyalists away to try an upgraded version of the motion sensing they know? Let's not forget that if you don't already own the PlayStation 3 or Xbox 360, you need the console, too, so… There was some grumbling going on about the Move's price and you can fully expect more grumbling over Kinect's price, which may be an indication of low initial sales.
But 3D is even more mysterious. I just saw a beautiful 40" Samsung 3D 1080p LED HDTV for "only" $1700 at Best Buy and while that's agreeable to some, it isn't to those who are plenty happy with their current HDTV, and aren't willing to make such a big investment. Besides, are people thinking the technology might get better with time, and they'll be screwed if they adopt early? Perhaps it would make sense for Sony to find a way to allow gamers to test 3D in the likes of Killzone 3 and Gran Turismo 5 ; perhaps something like this will be necessary . Personally, while I certainly could get that Samsung now, I too am inclined to wait. I've seen very little of everything they're promoting and so has most everyone else, and it's always difficult to promote a product that consumers never really got a chance to see . Move demo kiosks everywhere will be a must, as should 3D demos in various retailers, I expect.
But what do you think? This isn't about telling you what the appropriate price points are; it's about asking the gaming masses.
Yeah I was harping on Demon's souls 2 and move for a long time and then they said no to demon's souls 2, darn them and ruining my dream.
I have two DS3 controllers, it means that I only need to pay $100(bundle)+50(one more wand) =$150. It okay for me. So that I can play with my gf, or I can use two wands to play some games like the vedio.
I think the price range for the move is fine but I do agree wish they would of bundled the other controller with the move but as someone who use to work in the marketing world I know why they do this sort of stuff.
3D tv I just finally purchased a 42inch bravia during christmas for 499.00 CDN, i just don't think I'll be purchasing a new tv right now but once prices go down adn we see the sucess of the 3d tvs then of course I will, I'll never get to enjoy it without a barf bucket.
It's hard to say really whether I'll ever get 3d or not, I still haven't used these new glasses with these new tvs, but in all reality I've never been that big on 3d and not just because of its quality.
When you play a game in HD and someone is walking through a town it looks 3 dimensional. When you watch something with 3d, certain elements still have that look like they're inside the screen in a 3d world, but some stuff sticks out of the screen. Everything doesn't look 3d in 3d only some of it does.
It just looks funky because it doesn't look 3d to me, it looks like there are objects floating in my living room that have no reason to be floating.
As for move, I'm sure anyone who's been around the last couple months knows I'm a fan. Price is exactly what I expected and tho I'll have to buy more and more pieces over time, that's ok, I had to buy my ds3's over time, so no big diff here.
I agree that 3D does look a wee bit funky. But you can't deny the scene in Avatar with the tree spirits landing on what's his face was pure awesome. The only part of the entire movie that wowed me. I kind of prefer the gimmicky side of 3D, because it doesn't work properly when seen as a serious image, if that makes any sense.
Also, 3D only works if you are totally immersed in it. In other words, a cinema, where everything else is black and your focus is on the screen, which takes up all of the visible space in front of you. Watching a TV, no matter how large, will always take you out of the experience because of all the things cluttering up your space.
Peace.
200 bucks really is the limit, i would not pay anymore than that for the full set, thats 2 move controllers 1 sub controller and 1 ps eye.
say 70 for move, 40 for the sub and 60 for the eye is fair.
thats by them selves, but the whole point of buying a bundle is for it to be cheaper, not more expensive.
if i go down to the local grosser store 5 kilos of flour will be cheaper than 2 bags each 2.5 kilos.
thats the whole point of buying in bulk, to buy in bundles.
kinects only going to be 200 here apparently, that can have up to 4 players conected no matter what game.
ps move can only have 4 move controllers connected at once, or 2 moves and 2 subs.
so if a game uses 1 move and 1 sub per person than you can only have 2 people apose to kinects 4.
plus not to mention move runs on batteries so eventually they will run out and you will have to charge them.
kinects hardwired into the system so you dont have to worry about that dying.
if moves any where near kinects price than its going to sink like the titanic!
not to mention kinects already getting the advertised from here to the moon!
but with sony and move, well there still in preschool when it comes to advertisement.
as the saying goes you have to spend money, to make money! the sooner sony learns that and stops being so tight a$$ed the better!
but im afraid thats never going to happen.
HAHA, you're comparing to kinect to the move and saying it's better because you can have more players? Okay, I'll take the bait. People who have gone hands on with the kinect have stated that the lag time is in the vicinity of 2-5 seconds more often than not (look up your own sources), imagine multiplying that by the four players. It would be enough to make all but the most sedate games unplayable. I may be completely off there, but whatever.
Also, problems were shown at E3 with a single player controlling kinect. Picture how much worse that would be with four people jumping around like idiots, crossing each others physical boundaries in regards to the camera. I have no doubt that they f'd it up big time.
If you're anything like me, you'll always have a spare controller hooked up to the ps3 charging in case the one you're using dies. That may not seem feasible with the Move given that most people will be using both at the same time, but why not hook it up while playing a game that does not require it.
Finally, the kinect is only hardwired into the system if you buy one of the new 360s. If you have an older system, you will still need to plug it into a wall socket.
One last thing. As far as Sony is concerned, Australia barely registers in terms of overall sales, so they don't see any real reason to advertise here. Sure, they still do it occassionally, but not nearly enough. And honestly, where have you seen a Kinect ad? Because I've never even seen a 360 ad on TV. Can't say the same about the other two though.
Peace.
no im not saying kinect is better because it can have more players, im saying kinect is better because of a few things.
you do realize its not do out till november right?
they could change allot of things before then!
as for advertisements, whats your email address?
ill send ya the flyer EB sent me for kinect and the 360 S today.
I haven't heard anywhere that you can only have 4 move controllers, 2 wands and 2 navs. Put up a link, cause it sounds like you're making up stuff now.
If the ps3 can link 7 ds3's why only 2 wands? I don't see it. Prove me wrong.
To the OP:
For me the big drawback to Kinect is the GAMES.
How do I play a game like Halo w/o a controller? You can play SOCOM 4 with the Move, but Microsoft hasn't shown us any type of equivalence with Kinect.
But maybe I'm not their target audience, as I'm not a giddy school girl jumping in a boat to collect coins with her friend.
I don't see myself needing 4 Move controllers, especially when the Dualshock 3 CAN function in place of the Nav.
If I can have 4 players, but don't see any games I like, it really doesn't matter to me how many players Kinect supports.
Last edited by bridgera on 6/18/2010 11:06:56 AM
Dude, you hold your hand like a gun (index finger straight, thumb up) and pump it towards the screen, while simultaneously saying "pyew…pyew pyew pyew". Couldn't be more simple.
What are you, in eighth grade?
;P
I don't see 3D being at a good price point for another two years at least. When I can get a good set for under $1500 AUD I think I'll get interested.
What most people can't seem to be able to grasp is that Move is a premium product that requires more than one piece and is far more advanced and accurate than the base structure granted by the Wii. With that in mind, the price tag for new adopters buying a PS3 at the same time will be daunting, but anyone that already has a PS3 and knows Sony's history of releasing Ace hardware should have no problem dropping the $180(?) for all of the pieces.
I had more to say, but it's grown wings and flown out of my head, so I guess, Peace.
Both are just 'cheap' gimmicks. I don't mean cheap as in the price, but cheap in the ideas. I'm gonna consider PSMove, but after playing a few games with it, and as for 3D, not until I have no other choice will it be considered.
How much is this gonna cost in europe!!!!
They said there would be info on the UK blog.
The only advantage I give Kinect is that It supports 4 players out of the box meaning you only have to buy one.
yes, but think about the quality and how big of a room do you need to have for 4 players? Also every demo has shown them standing directly in front of the kinect, one a 4 player game how close to you have to be.
People are going to be falling all over each other trying squeeze into view.
I think I'm going to go to peoples houses who get kinect and walk around behind them while they're trying to play, should be good for a laugh.
*Sigh*
I see it like this: 3d-TV, hell to the no, at least not yet, I wouldn't even be able to get that cash if I worked for 5 months straight and the technology is still in very early stages.
PS MOVE, either bundle + extra MOVE + (2) sub controllers = 100 + 50 + (60) 30 = (210) 180 bucks,
or buy a PSeye now + 2 MOVEs later on + 1 (2) subs later on and also a game = 50 + 100 + 30 (60) + 40 = 220 (250) bucks minus the 50 bucks now will still end up with 200 bucks later on…
I just don't see it happening till the first price drop, since I still need to buy more games and a Kite + board for kite surfing, which is ridiculously expensive as well.
does anybody know what Killzone 3's frame rate is going to be? Reason I ask is that I would be very surprised it is going to be over 200. Which I believe is the requirement for the new 3D tech. Something does not add up or I need to be directed to the appropriate Wiki.
Human eye can only see 30 fps. So for 3D you only need 60 fps (30 fps per each eye).
Some people claim to see improvements at 60 fps, so with 3d you would never need more than 120 fps.
I think you're right about most people, most people who do not regularly view video images at 60fps can not tell the difference. I think it's kind of like being a trained observer. Once you have trained your vision you can discern a difference between 30fps and 60fps.
I think we can perceive higher frame rates than 30fps. It's just that most video sources prior to HDTV were 24/25 fps. After about 60 frames per second we can't perceive individual frames, but human vision is an analog system, so human vision can discern changes in frame rate even at those higher frame rates. If for example the frame rate varies or there are stutters, a human will notice it. If you watch something in 30fps, especially fast moving action the human vision system will let you see each individual frame, they may blur together to an extent but you will perceive the 'jerky' motion of fast moving objects. At 60fps, the differences between frames are more slight making it harder to discern the differences.
That's why games at 60fps are often described as silky smooth because we can't detect the differences in the frames and it just looks smooth.
The Move is a little expensive: $50 controller + $30 camera + $30 subcontroller. And I guess you need two of the $50 controllers for some games, like boxing or where you've got a sword and a shield? That's the thing – $80 for a controller and camera isn't bad, but how many games will that allow you to play? I don't know. I'm buying it so I can play a couple of games that look interesting to me, it's a novelty that I may get sick of quickly, or maybe I'll like it. Won't know until I try it.
I have no idea what the general public will think of it. Will Wii owners start migrating to the PS3 over the next couple of years? It will be interesting to see what happens.
3-D TV's? Way too expensive. They've got a little problem in that most 3-D movies are aimed at a young audience, and most young people don't have jobs, much less money. My son had to beg me for months before I finally bought him a 360 for $500. A $1,700 – $2,000 TV? Ha ha ha ha ha. Personally, I'm sure 3-D gaming is really cool, but not nearly cool enough to justify the price. If 3-D added $100 to the price of a TV, then I would be willing to consider it. But only if I was in the market for a new TV. I'm certainly not rich enough to go around replacing nearly-new, high dollar electronic items just because they've come out with a new model.
Last edited by JackC8 on 6/18/2010 7:37:47 AM
I expected the package to be 100 bucks including the second Move controller. But my hopes were too high since I forgot that they have to include the Eye Toy for the whole Move thing to work. So basically, you will have to spend $150 for the whole experience of both consoles (PS3 and Xbox). I hope that Move gets better games, since I promised myself not to spend a dime on Microsoft's console.
Where did you read that the Eye Toy was compatible with Move? I haven't seen that yet.
a lot of people still call the ps3 camera eye toy.
LOL, never had played with any, so I though it was the same name/thing…my bad!
Im just thinking that the devs of multi platfrom titles wont be arsed having much of a difference in the games between the mechanics of move and kinect, so one will probably take the other down a bit.
I have no interest in 3d or the move. How about just making a game that doesn't need to be patched once it is released!
I think the move bundle is priced right at $99. Although you might wind up buying a 2nd controller and/or the Nav with it, putting it at $180 tops, but at least there are options, like holding off on the 2nd controller and Move until you get your hands on it. With 40+ Move titles at the end of the year, it should have some good games.
Kinect at $150 doesn't do it for me, they haven't shown me the ability to play games like SOCOM 4 with it. Maybe if they had some awesome games and a way to play games like Halo with it, but I haven't seen anything like that yet.
3D is still too new and too expensive at this point. The technology WILL improve, and the prices WILL drop. Maybe next gen it'll be bigger, but now I don't see it happening.
Ben, you were wrong. The $99 bundle DOES NOT come with the FULL MOVE SET.
Comes with: 1.) PS3 MOVE Motion Controller, retailed at $49.99 2.) PS3 Eye, retailed at $49.99 3.) Sport Champions, retailed at $39.99
Now buying them separately wouldn't be smart. Plus this bundle doesn't come with PS3 MOVE Navigation Controller, retailed at $29.99 You were wrong Ben :]
btw, Gamestop has a three day weekend of BUY 2 GET 1 FREE starting today!
I'll pass on the 3D tv … I'm still waiting on the holographic tv. Let's get our checklist:
1) Technology is available-(check, has been for awhile)
2) Porn industry backs it – (check, and a driving force behind a lot of new tech)
3) Is it past the year 2000-(check, hence, it is the future)
Where's my hologram tv?!?!
Last edited by Lemon_Saint on 6/18/2010 1:03:17 PM
Holographic TV is not ready for primetime, it's not truly available outside he R&D labs. This is as bad as people saying that we didn't need BluRay and besides Holographic discs were already available. If they are, where are they? Oh, that's right, they aren't and weren't 4 years ago when everyone who disliked BluRay tried to promote them as being the true HD alternative.
I've been looking around for a 3d tv and bestbuy has some good deals on a few. I MAY BUY one before the year is out, however the move controllers I believe cost too much damn money. Move is targeted towards family gaming. Well, for 4 wands and 4 nav controllers your looking at 320 bucks not including sales taxes. THAT'S A LOT OF DOUGH! I believe you should get both pieces for 60-70 bucks and maybe 100 bucks for all three(nav, wand, PSeye)
Why do you need 4 wand controllers? The standard Move controller set is 1 wand, 1 nave and the PSEye. Since a DS3 can double up as a nav controller and many already have a PSEye, the price of entry into 'Move' for most will be the cost of the wand controller. OK for some games you might need two wands, so you buy two. You still don't need to have more than one PSEye and if you're holding one of the wands in either hand, you need no extra nav controller.
People keep trying to price up Move by adopting a worst case scenario. How about a best case scenario. You already have a PS3, a PSEye and a DS3, so you spend $50 and buy a wand controller. Now you're ready for Move titles at $39.99 a piece. Seems rather inexpensive to me. Remember this is an accessory, not a new console purchase.
@HIGHLANDER The $99 MOVE SET DOES NOTT!!! I repeat.. DOES NOT come with the NAVIGATOR! Stop advertising something that is false
@Logamus
I'm not advertising anything, and I have not said anything about the standard Move set coming with (or without) a nav controller.
What have said is that you can use the dualshock 3 instead of the nav controler so that if you already have the PSEye as many PS3 owners do, all you need is one Move controller (or two if you want to play games that use two).
So before you make a fool of yourself again, try to actually read my posts.
Does anyone know what games are in Sports Champion? As for the price $99 for the bundle seems ok. I would buy this right off if they bundled it with Sorcery.
Here are two interesting reads:
PS3 Move:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/199107/playstation_move_e3_hands_on_precision_perfection.html
Kinect:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/199139/microsoft_kinect_e3_hands_on_were_missing_the_point.html?tk=hp_rev
The writer of both "reviews" makes a bold claim saying that going from Kinect to Move is like upgrading to high fidelity.
Last edited by Orvisman on 6/18/2010 6:58:38 PM
That PCWorld piece on MOve is OK, but not well researched. The writer comments on how the Kinect is a high resolution version of the Eyetoy with audio. The exact quote is "Kinect is basically Sony's EyeToy with higher resolution tracking and audio input."
I have news for him, the PSEye is a high resolution EyeToy with audio input. Perhaps the writer at PC World simply doesn't know that?
Last edited by TheHighlander on 6/19/2010 12:10:45 AM
Orvisman
Nice catch!
BTW, while surfing through that first link I noticed this other good link too…
Inside the Sports Champions, "Gladiator" game.
Hands-on with Sony's PlayStation Move(2 vid's)
http://www.techlicious.com/blog/hands-on-with-sonys-playstation-move/
Here's what I'd say. If you want to appeal to the masses of gamers, you need to earn the attention.
PS3 earned it and it's now changing peoples minds. Price range. Prove me wrong! Since the Slim, the PS3 has been a raging success story, as far Sonys' sales are concerned.
Move means to do well, but money is evil. I mean it! We're at a financial explosion of epic failures and companies keep expecting their customers to pour more and more into their one product with a lifecycle stacking full of expenses.
Well if you pour too much, it'll spill. And that's what COULD happen to an excellent product. Sony needs to man up and soak up some of the Moves' pricetag. Make your customers WANT to buy it. Not just want it. That alone won't warrant what they need to achieve with the PS3s Half Life point dawning, if not dawned.
3D gaming won't happen to do so well. Prices are absurd and most importantly, as you may agree Ben, some of us cherish what we currently have. Expanding gameplay with 3D will certainly take back seat to the PS3 and really shine with PS4. Expanding on their values with hardware will ultimately make the populus happy.
This would be Sonys' chance to strike. With their impressive tools of imagery projection along with their R&D, they can make it possible to use a GPU strictly to render 3D via hardware and make it compatible for both 2D and 3D sets, the 2D being mostly used to get gamers feet "wet".
Move needs to become cheaper. It'll carry the PS3 along with more generalized masses willing to step away from the kiddish console. PS4 3D will set a new standard for two different dimensions of TVs and ultimately change how we watch our entertainment.
Hell, Sony can get really bold and introduce a product for the PS3 that'll add a "support" box that'll help push 3D imagery over 2D TV units. Again, not as good as a 3D TV w/ accelerated 3D support, but better than dumping another $1500+ on a 3D TV set.
Edit: Sorry, this post was all over the place! haha.. Storms keeping me up! Better than tornadoes, for sure though.
Last edited by DemonNeno on 6/19/2010 12:40:39 AM
For 3D and all future HD gaming to work really well, the next generation of consoles need to go down the route of real time ray tracing. That is where the next step is – IMHO.
That would be absolutely wicked to see ray-tracing finally strive in realtime! I haven't heard much news about it lately, but I can imagine it would be quite a feast to get it running. Whatever happened to the creation of an "RPU"?
LOL! some would say that is what the CellBE is…
Touche! It's evident that the only thing holding back the current Cell is in the form of code.
granted there are going to be games where multiple move controllers is a must but whats stopping them to create move games where the controller is shared by up to 4 people. you know light changes color means next player. that archery game could be one of those games. but 2 wands to be shared by 4 people just like how games for the wii can share wii remotes for each player. the tiger woods game can be be a candidate to play like that and basically any game that doesnt need you to have all four people on at the same time. they could have two at the same time then switch to the next two. As for me, i'm not really going to buy move so that i can host or play with other people. i'm buying it to try the games for myself. i'm in no rush to buy more accessories. i already have 4 dualshock 3s, 1 ps3 mic, the ps3 keypad, ps2 adapter, a dedicated external hard drive, ps3 remote, and a psp memory stick to back up my save files.
It was brought up before by another poster at some point when he wondered will the Move keep up with his martial arts swiftness.
If the Eye only captures at 60FPS, I really wonder if that is fast enough. Does anyone know of an article documenting the fastest speed a hand can move and still be lag-free detectable with the Eye?
I say that because I really want to play tennis and ping pong on PS3 at realtime speeds. I've played the Wii at my nephews house, it blows. The graphics may be more of a turnoff to me than the actual crappy control that I just can't get the hang of.
And I really really REALLY want a lightsaber game.
Imagine Tennis on the PS3, at the graphic quality of other top sports titles etc IN FRACKIN 3D!
But it will all be in vein if the Eye isn't fast enough, and that's what I want to know.
Its funny to say, but I think what needed to happen was to have a Natal/Kinect type camera used on the PS3 with the move instead of the Eye. That would be gold.
Ok, so help me out, I just saw the specs for the Eye and it says it captures 120FPS. I swore when reading about the move that its motion would be captured at 60FPS.
What framerate IS the Move being captured at? 120FPS would make my speed concerns void.