Menu Close

Square-Enix Doesn’t Want To Expand, They Want New Fans

I've only considered the possible conclusion for several years but after the publisher's most recent announcement , I'm now convinced.

With every new unveiling, it seems as if Square-Enix is intent on informing everyone of the company's intention to "expand" their fan base. …but that's not what they're doing. "Expanding" means that you build on what you already have; it means you retain that which has prompted the reason for growth. In other words, for a video game developer and publisher, it means they produce entertainment products that cater to both their established fanbase and a new group of gamers. However, it seems painfully obvious that such is not the way; ever since they announced they desire to "expand Westward" and opened their LA studio, it's clear they only wish to appeal to a new audience, while leaving the loyal audience behind . They had the foundation but instead of building upwards – which is what they claim to be doing – they essentially took a wrecking ball to that foundation and started construction on a new building.

I'm not saying Dungeon Siege III won't be good (although my confidence in Obsidian isn't very high), and I'm not saying I didn't enjoy past titles like Final Fantasy XIII . I'm saying that just about everything new from Square-Enix shows either an extreme lack – or is entirely devoid – of the very elements and features that made millions fall in love with Squaresoft all those years ago. Granted, the immediate argument for such a move is that progression and advancement means leaving old-fashioned ideas and mechanics behind, but you can boast innovation while retaining your fans. It really is possible. All I see is a company that suddenly has zero interest in Japanese gamers (let's face it; FFXIII sold like crazy on name-brand recognition alone), and continues to lump all Western gamers into the same group: the twitchy, must have crazy machismo in order to be entertaining, neanderthal crowd.

All I've got to say to that is, "thanks for repaying my loyalty with your assumption." You know, I'm suddenly reminded of the time when S-E brought up the idea of a Final Fantasy VII remake at their Twitter page, and the page exploded…and S-E was surprised . They were actually surprised , as if they really didn't know there were millions of old Squaresoft fans still out there; fans who may appreciate something like Deus Ex: Human Revolution but still miss the classic Square feel. And why is S-E basically only publishing now; do they only develop for Nintendo, or something? I think the bottom line is clear, and it's depressing for those who stare at their PS1 collections, realizing in dismay that in Square-Enix there is little to no semblance remaining of Squaresoft. They don't want to add to their fans (many of whom have already lost hope); they want to get new ones . Well, whatever. Seems illogical to me, but what the hell do I know?

113 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Jawknee
Jawknee
14 years ago

They are expanding at the expense of their old fans. This tells me that every here on out will likely be multiplat. Square will ever be ahead of the best again.

E3…Versus XIII multiplat announcement is coming.

>_<

laxpro2001
laxpro2001
14 years ago

Followed by some dumb KH game announcement for the iPhone >:o

Mystearica
Mystearica
14 years ago

Yeah – my post about has a link where they say "they are considering it"… but my post needs approval

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
14 years ago

Surely it would have been better to go ahead and expand to make money off a certain market, but then keep a section of your company just to please the millions who like things a certain way. Once upon a time the only good games were Japanese, but with this type of nonsense and fan-bashing going on I can see why it has flip flopped.

I'm no analyst but I can't see it working out in the long run. It'd be like Pizza Hut only selling that pasta of theirs and nixing the pizza. It wouldn't work.

laxpro2001
laxpro2001
14 years ago

good analogy

Bromus398
Bromus398
14 years ago

I completely agree with you, Ben. S-E has become my poster child for disappointing this generation. I just don't get what the hell happened. They went from developing consistently solid games to publishing a broad variety of mediocre to crap games. I don't understand it – why you would abandon the very crowds that made you profitable in the first place. Wouldn't it make more sense to cater to your hardcore fans and find ways within that to appeal to a broader audience? I understand it from a bottom-line marketing perspective, but that same perspective is ruining companies left and right. It's a shallow, short-sighted attempt to make money – especially in today's market where people have access to the internet for reviews and other people's opinions on products (especially popular ones).

That said, I've pretty much lost all faith in S-E. Unless they release one of my mainstay titles and it looks like it will kick ass beyond all shadow of a doubt (which is basically down to Kingdom Hearts 3), I'm done buying their products. Maybe if they return to the verge of ruin, they'll get their act back together.

Dancemachine55
Dancemachine55
14 years ago

My Dad owns a printing business.

If he were to drop all his loyal small and medium business clients for one big one with lots of money, would he be praised? Would that be an intelligent? No!!! Of course not!!!

This is exactly what S-E is doing.

The intelligent thing is to cater to your loyal clients/fans from whom you get the majority of your money. But cutting them off and risking one venture with a big business is like shouting from the rooftops you want to drive your company to the ground.

S-E SHOULD cater to their fans and listen to their demands, while trying to create an action game on the side that combats COD and tries to attract those large number of twitch gamers.

S-E are slowly killing themselves. When the hell are they finally going to fire that idiot President of theirs and get someone intelligent who ACTUALLY LISTENS to their fans!?!?!?!

There will be a lot of angry or sad faces at the Square-Enix booth at E3 this year.

Alienange
Alienange
14 years ago

Bang on the money here Ben. The surprise expressed by SE over a FFVII remake was, to me, a complete embarrassment for them.

They'll go off into publishing world and never develop their own decent game again. Young people will soon look at us old timer gamers and wonder what we were smoking to say that SE used to make good games.


Last edited by Alienange on 6/7/2010 11:08:57 PM

Anonymous
Anonymous
14 years ago

I like to add. . . do any of you bought FF7 Advent Children Complete? You know, the blu ray? Hmm, I wonder what the figures are? Hmm. . . makes you wonder if there even is a fanbase for FF7

Underdog15
Underdog15
14 years ago

You mean the blu-ray collectors edition I can't find ANYWHERE and had to buy over the internet? I have 2 copies.

EDIT: There's also a large number of people who didn't care for the DVD release. They love FF7 the game, but didn't like advent children. Why would they get the blu-ray if they hated the DVD? (Which was out for a good long while before the blu-ray…)


Last edited by Underdog15 on 6/7/2010 11:49:44 PM

Jawknee
Jawknee
14 years ago

I bought the DVD when it came out and the Blue Ray. I still watch Advent Children sometimes. Story sucks but its nice eye candy.

EDIT: There are still FFVII fans out there. You only need to look at the download numbers on PSN. It's been in the Top Downloads since it's release. I've played all the games in the Compilation except the cell phone one. People are still hungry for FFVII.


Last edited by Jawknee on 6/8/2010 2:39:55 AM

Anonymous
Anonymous
14 years ago

What a lame rant, Ben? I really thought you were above that. I'll hate to disagree here. Ever since the merger, Square & Enix, this company hasn't been the same. And was the share. . . 70% Enix to 30% Square. We as loyal fans kept at them. But the ones controlling the helm are not the ones whom were in control when it was all so good back, pre-Enix days. Ben, look at your FF13 game disc on PS3. (PS, if you were a SquareSoft fan, you would know SquareSoft PSone era games were printed with a white cover on the disc.) FF13 has a similar reminiscing feeling to it. Right when you open that box. . . so old school. That is as close we will ever get to SquareSoft.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
14 years ago

Wait, what? How is this article related to ownership percentages?

Dancemachine55
Dancemachine55
14 years ago

This article is about S-E announcing that they are abandoning their once loyal fans to tackle the twitch and casual gaming crowd.

It's about how times have changed. How Square is the epitomy of disappointment lately.

This has nothing to do with ownership percentages. This is about the fans of a once great developer being left out in the cold, and how S-E doesn't care about our views.

Underdog15
Underdog15
14 years ago

I rather appreciated the rant.

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
14 years ago

Pretty sure I don't even get your post. Are you making a point…?

Anonymous
Anonymous
14 years ago

Square doesn't exist! These are Enix decisions. Let fanboy-ism die for a second and realise this company hasn't been the same for a long time now. SquareSoft died with Spirits Within & FF10!

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
14 years ago

Trust me, we have all noticed they haven't been the same, but you can't just separate square and enix that way, they are a single entity now. As such it is well within their power not to make stupid decisions. There was always the option to listen to the fans, and plenty of people liked FFXII.

Jawknee
Jawknee
14 years ago

I disagree. I liked FFXII and DragonQuest VIII. Quite a bit. Square wasn't quite dead after Spirits Within. They still made a few good games. Now is a different story.

Anonymous
Anonymous
14 years ago

@Dancemachine55 I have no idea how to reply, thought it was that "/!" under your name but it isn't. My apologies.

And for my sake of opinion, I think Enix has catered & changed it's fan base when it is 4 years in the PS3 & only FF13 has been met by them. I'm excluding Batman Arkham Asylum. They bought it AFTER it was release. Games like Last Remnant, Star Ocean (finally ported two years later!) Infinite Undiscovery, etc. Even Nier was meant to be 360 ONLY! We, the real fans, the one that made them money. . . it's done! They don't care about us.

PS, the new SquareSoft is Mistwalker. aka Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, etc

Underdog15
Underdog15
14 years ago

You can't reply directly to him because it's a reply to your original post. In order to have your response appear below his, you'd have to click reply on the original post his falls under.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
14 years ago

Public Service announcement: The caution symbol is to report Spam. 🙂

CHAOS THEORY X
CHAOS THEORY X
14 years ago

Someone, go to E3 with a big ass sign and have it read "You Are Losing Your Fans" because evidently they have NO idea they are pissing us off

Underdog15
Underdog15
14 years ago

I would love for someone to do that. Just stand there for hours.

CharlesD
CharlesD
14 years ago

Seems like a poor decision on their part

ZettaiSeigi
ZettaiSeigi
14 years ago

I know I've said this before, but I'll say it again. I think it's high time that Sony invests on their own RPG studio, if not acquire one of the good ones and invest seriously on it. Level-5, anyone? Atlus? It's a long shot, but one can hope!

I am sure that they would be more that capable of toppling Square-Enix by the rate things are going. A lot, if not all, of Sony's first-party games got critical and commercial success. I could easily see them doing the same thing with an RPG.

Yes, Sony got a lot of love from Square during the PS1/PS2 era, but it's clear as day that it is not the case anymore. S-E has forgotten about their loyal fanbase and doesn't care anymore about what they want and what they have to say.

So Sony, it's time that you get your hands "dirty". You don't need S-E anymore. You are fully capable to create an RPG that will be as good, if not better, than Final Fantasy. If and when you get to do that, you would have the last laugh. And we would be there with you laughing at S-E until they disappear into oblivion.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
14 years ago

Would I be remiss in saying this is like a big fat oil-leaking disaster to RPG gaming?

MyWorstNightmar
MyWorstNightmar
14 years ago

I'm the oily sea otter.

Dancemachine55
Dancemachine55
14 years ago

We gamers are the damaged sea life struggling to find clear good RPG water in a sea of oily action shooters.

goodgamer
goodgamer
14 years ago

square enix is a different company from squaresoft
also japan studio is the new rpgmasters

AlfaChaos
AlfaChaos
14 years ago

Honestly, I just find that sad and, not just disappointing, disheartening… That's like your favorite band going "we don't care what fans we have now. You all can rot somewhere. We want new ones!"

Underdog15
Underdog15
14 years ago

Like Metallica going Broadway.

Lawless SXE
Lawless SXE
14 years ago

It's a crying shame that I feel I missed the golden age of gaming. You all speak so fondly of the PS1/2 generation games such as Final Fantasy 7-10, Parasite Eve, MGS1 (I've got the others), Resident Evil 1-3, that I truly feel as though today's games are only a figment of their former selves, despite the massive advances in technology.
As for Square-Enix, well, what can be done? No amount of begging and pleading will make them see sense, only the brilliant flash of money can do that, but we all know that Sony (God Bless) will not sink as low as that. Alas, Square-Enix, we knew ye well, back in the days that were.
Oi, and what's this Nerkas video that was flashing outside the Staples Centre?
Peace.

Jawknee
Jawknee
14 years ago

Don't forget FFXII and DQVIII. 🙂

Lawless SXE
Lawless SXE
14 years ago

Well, yes Jawknee, but it was a generalisation. Obviously I missed a metric ton of games, but I don't want everyone chiming in with their favourites. Thanks for the reply anyway.
Peace.

Dancemachine55
Dancemachine55
14 years ago

Lawless, I feel for ya.

I was around 10 when all these games started appearing on PS1. I got MGS1 and FF VII from my family, and those 2 alone remain to this day in my top 5 all time favourites. Story-telling in games was at it's peak with those games. They pushed the boundary of video game story-telling, beyond staged platformers like Mario where you hav to save a Princess.

We speak so fondly of these games because they remind us of a time when we were young, had more free time to appreciate every detail within each game. It was a time where games were admired for their beauty and creativity, not their ability to host 56 players online with more guns than the Vatican can hold.

These games made companies like Squaresoft and Konami great. These games pushed the bar. The cutscenes in FF VII alone were enough to make me run to my parents to show it off to them in 1997. It was all cutting edge.

To see great companies abandon their great roots and hardcore fans in order to make a quick cash-in on the COD audience is beyond me. It makes me weep for the future of this industry, as I have already stated before.

All those old games you mentioned are held dearly for what they achieved artistically and narratively at the time.

Personally, Bioware is the only company I have strong faith in for story-telling and RPG mechanics. Still haven't played White Knight Chronicles, and Demon's Souls isn't coming out in Australia for another 2 weeks.

Do yourself a favour Lawless. Download and play all these games on the PSN. Vagrant Story, FF's VII-IX, Metal Gear Solid, Oddworld: Abe's Odyssey (not an RPG, but still a great game), and keep an eye out for Parasite Eve.

As for current games, get your hands on White Knight Chronicles, Demon's Souls and Lost Odyssey on 360. These will give you a hint of what we older gamers experienced back in the day.

Douchebaguette
Douchebaguette
14 years ago

Lawless, I wouldn't envy that much simply because the "Golden Age" people claim is purely and simply their childhood nostalgia. The same s**t will happen when the 7-10 year olds of today grow up.

Underdog15
Underdog15
14 years ago

It's more than nostalgia, I'm afraid. It's more about standards of quality. Sure, from a technological point of view, things have obviously progressed, however, while the graphics of these classics still wow'd us at the time, the graphics and flash weren't the most important aspect of these experiences for us. I think what people are lamenting is the fact that SE doesn't have that commitment to perfection and depth they used to have, and that they are moving away from what got them their fan base in the first place.

No one is denying that some of their games are still well done, for the most part. Most people will admit that despite FFXIII, for a common example, being a let-down in terms of moving away from what FF's are known for, it was still a very well done development. However, that 'X' factor that made them great seems to have disappeared. The further complaint is their lack of concern for customer satisfaction. They aren't expanding their business… they're rebuilding it.

Lawless SXE
Lawless SXE
14 years ago

@ dancemachine
I fully intend to pick up Demon's Souls when it is released, and White Knight Chronicles some time in the future (maybe when the second is released so I can have them both in one hit).

As for those PSN releases you listed, I'd love to get them, but I simply can't as I'm running on a 3G internet connection you see. As soon as I get a real one I'll pick them up though.

@Douchebaguette
I know that what you say is probably true, but I don't look back on my experiences with the old Atari with nostalgia, or fondness. I look back and think, 'Wow, they were actually really bad.' And besides, as much as I like most of the games that I've played, I can't say that I've seen anything to grab me and properly take a hold of me yet. I know that your post was that it was nostalgia for nostalgia's sake, but I don't think that's true.

@Underdog
Yeah, but from what I understand, it isn't just Square-Enix. It seems to me that most all publishers are trying to expand their business by attempting to take on new consumers at the accidental expense of their old. It just seems downright foolish.

Scarecrow
Scarecrow
14 years ago

@Douchebaguette,

Wrong

A better comparison is the rock/metal music genre.

I wasn't around for Metallica in the 80s, Ozzy, Judas Priest, Dio, etc. in the 70s, yet I still agree with A LOT of people that-that was the golden era of rock/metal.

Late 1980s through 2000 was v-games golden era. Plain and simple.

Level design
story telling
character design

So much variety you couldn't even begin to "OMG I'm tired of FPSs." It had platformers, fighting games, SHMUPS, FPSs, racing, sports, rpgs, action adventure, it had everything you can think of.

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
14 years ago

While nostalgia admittedly plays a role (and always will), there remains a distinct difference in quality and style from Square-Enix/Squaresoft. The review scores alone tell the story; Square rarely put out anything that bombed while Square-Enix has trouble releasing anything worthy of a 9+ these days.

It's this difference that pains the loyal fanbase most. The shift in style and intended demographic is a close second, but yes, the latter may be more due to nostalgia.

Douchebaguette
Douchebaguette
14 years ago

@ Scarecrow

Since when something better to you will ever be better to the eyes of a child playing newer games today? Never.

You have to re-read what I said. I didn't say anything about that time being better or not than this time [btw, I too prefer that time over this time. There will never be games that has struck aura and mesmerized me such as FFVI, FFVII, Chrono Trigger, MGS]. All I said was, that people growing up NOW will end up saying the same s**t we do now to them, so Lawless shouldn't really beat himself up for it. Why? Because kids today will never get to witness what you claim as the "Golden Age" and we'll never magically erase our memories and magically live to see their side of the story. Infact there's more chance they'll believe they're in some sort of "Golden Lame." It's a bit obvious. It's like your grandad that keeps banging on about "Back in mah day, we didn't have tuh fight over the remote. We actually had tuh get up off our tuckus' then walk tuh the tv and actually change the channel manually. Now shut up and give me the remote you young whippershnappers D=<."

—-

Cut to the chase: there is no "Golden Ninja Warrior." It's what's golden to YOU. I can't believe I'm stating the obvious here. And if you're going to argue about quality in games then one can argue that back in those days you'd never find a game with conviction such as Uncharted 2 [God, the voice acting to the first 3 Resident Evil games were ATROCIOUS], RPGs with so much choice like Mass Effect 2, mass creativity found in games like LittBigPlanet, or ease of universal plug n' play for fairly addictive socialising online experiences such as COD4, KZ2, Halo 3 & Red Dead Redepmtion.

Who knows. See your FFVIII could be some kid's FFXIII. Your cousin's Modnation Racers could be your older brother's Mario Kart, all on the same level of appreciation anyway.

Perhaps if the days you mention were about the Golden Days for developers, I would concur.


And for the off-topic: I know plenty of people who appreciate the foundation of metal, the influences from Thrash metal, but would rather listen more to the metal which bands generate today over the classics, or would rather see Lamb of God live over Iron Maiden. Wanna know why? Oooh, [other than exceptions such as me, where I've listened to 80's thrash and NWOBHM first before expanding to other and later genres of metal] it's a another mentioning of the obvious: because they've grown & adapted to metal today. They've never witnessed yesteryay, so why be a douchay and nay-say by telling a storay about the superioritay of the Golden-ay? Exactlay.

Douchebaguette
Douchebaguette
14 years ago

@ Ben – True, dat. Touché.

Underdog15
Underdog15
14 years ago

Woh wait, what? KZ2, COD, RDR… games for todays 12 year olds to consider golden? They shouldn't be playing those for another 5 years! lol

I'm afraid I agree with Scarecrow and Ben, though. While there is a nostalgia side to our appreciation, the case in point, SE, doesn't score the same they used to. There is an obvious decline, not just to fans, but all critics. Keep in mind, most critics don't even do a comparison to begin with. However, their overall scores are a full point lower, on average, if not more, than they used to score back in the day.

Instead of the obvious Final Fantasy series, look at Dragon Quest VIII. SE stuck to VERY traditional means, and they had huge success. Whenever they get to their roots, they do well. Dragon Quest VIII averaged a score of 9.2/10 amongst 55 professional online critics. This is a fairly recent (4-5 years late PS2 gen) proof-in-point about the traditional JRPG working for SE. When has SE ever created a game fans want and failed, is my question. Perhaps that's a better question than "Why are they moving forward?". Why not ask, "When has their traditional-what-fans-want attitude NOT paid off?" Movies, like AC and Spirits Within, do not count, as they aren't really what fans want… not REALLY.

___________
___________
14 years ago

ive been saying that for months.
there trying to appeal to more people thus increase their customer base but in doing so there loosing fans.
what the millions of people who live and breathe FF is not good enough for ya?
its not like there barley scraping through i mean for fu*ks sake there swimming in money, so much so they just bought out eidos there not exactly a cheap small company!!!
arent those 2 Ferraris 2 bentleys and 2 RR and 5M dollar mansion enough for ya MR wadda?
selfish ^%$# #$%^$# %$#@#% ^^&%$#@#@#$!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this is what is wrong with the industry today and why todays games will never be as good as yesterdays.
back in the day developers and publishers everyone involved in a game had a massive passion for the game thats why they were doing it, not to make cash.
that passion made them care about what they release and thus made it a fantastic game.

nowdays they could not care less whether their game is good or sh*t as long as it brings in the $ thats all they care about!
its looking like developers like naughty dog are a dying breed, give us a few years and we will have nothing left but shovelware ala activision.

im going to ring activision tomorrow and give them a ear full and hopefully get it through their thick heads.
i bought crash racing 2 on my iphone and its so freaking laggy i can not play it!
im ringing them tomorrow, giving them a piece of my mind and demanding my money back.
until these selfish a$$holes get a swift kick up the backside there not going to stop and before you know it we will be drowning in activisions.

i can honestly see this gen being my last gen of gaming, after this were going to have nothing but shovleware developers releasing sh*t and charging us a arm and a leg for it.
why make a good game and bust your a$$ when you can do a third of the work and make just as much money?

kraygen
kraygen
14 years ago

Off topic but definitely need to know.

RPG fans who haven't played white knight, it is the video game deal of the day on amazon today, for only $36.99.

I'd jump all over that deal.

aaronisbla
aaronisbla
14 years ago

I really enjoyed FF13 however it was the first FF game that after i beat it, i looked forward to trading it in for maximum value in a trade in deal at gamestop.

NEVER have i sold a FF game after beating it. Not even FFX-2 which still sits in my collection. Thats saying a lot. At this point if/when they announce FF VS 13 being multiconsole i dont think many will care

Dancemachine55
Dancemachine55
14 years ago

For those comparing this to Squaresoft jumping ship from Nintendo to Sony:

THIS IS NOTHING LIKE THAT!!!!

Sony has the most powerful console on the market with the largest mass media storage disc available, the Blu-ray. If S-E cared about their creative vision, they'd keep their game Sony exclusive.

Fair enough if FF XIII went multiplat, 360 was still kicking butt in 2008 when the announcement was made. But there is NO EXCUSE for FF Vs XIII to go multiplat if S-E want to see the greatest FF RPG made, visually, narratively and spacially.

If Squaresoft were still around, we wouldn't be in this mess. FF XIII would be PS3 exclusive. Vs XIII and XIV would be exclusive to PS3. These games would be aiming for greatness in the game collectors shelves, not greatness in selling like hotcakes and becoming unwanted beer coasters that are worth $3 in the bargain bin.

S-E no longer care about quality, and that is a shame. Self-destructive is the best word to describe their direction.

FIRE WADDA!!!! What are the board members waiting for!??!?! Wasn't that Twitter post about a FF VII remake enough of a wake up call to them? Do they even know we old fans still exist in the hopes of a PS3 exclusive Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts or Parasite Eve sequel/remake?

Who do S-E listen to? I will join that company and THEN tell S-E what to do to save themselves and their image. RETAIN YOUR RPG GREATNESS!!! LISTEN TO YOUR FANS!!!

As ____________ said, it's not like S-E doesn't have a big fanbase, cos theirs is huge, I'm talking millions, in regards to fans of Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts and Dragon Quest.

Sorry, ranting too much.

Basically, we fans need to find the local S-E developer studio and stage a protest. Spread the word from US to Japan. S-E must be held accountable for their actions. We fans are a passionate bunch, and they need to know that!!!!


Last edited by Dancemachine55 on 6/8/2010 7:14:41 AM

Clamedeus
Clamedeus
14 years ago

Something tells me SE doesn't care about Blu-Ray and they will go ahead and release it multiplatform anyway.

Which i think is stupid, if making it for another platform means making it look even worse with multiple discs why bother doing it when you can put ALL of it on one single Blu-Ray, doesn't make any sense what so ever.

It's like If you had the money to buy a Lamborghini or a Honda what would you buy?

Underdog15
Underdog15
14 years ago

Asking the wrong guy. I'd buy the Honda and use the left over money that would have been spent on the Lamborghini on either my gaming room, extra mortgage payments, or an RRSP. But I'm cheap like that.