I've only considered the possible conclusion for several years but after the publisher's most recent announcement , I'm now convinced.
With every new unveiling, it seems as if Square-Enix is intent on informing everyone of the company's intention to "expand" their fan base. …but that's not what they're doing. "Expanding" means that you build on what you already have; it means you retain that which has prompted the reason for growth. In other words, for a video game developer and publisher, it means they produce entertainment products that cater to both their established fanbase and a new group of gamers. However, it seems painfully obvious that such is not the way; ever since they announced they desire to "expand Westward" and opened their LA studio, it's clear they only wish to appeal to a new audience, while leaving the loyal audience behind . They had the foundation but instead of building upwards – which is what they claim to be doing – they essentially took a wrecking ball to that foundation and started construction on a new building.
I'm not saying Dungeon Siege III won't be good (although my confidence in Obsidian isn't very high), and I'm not saying I didn't enjoy past titles like Final Fantasy XIII . I'm saying that just about everything new from Square-Enix shows either an extreme lack – or is entirely devoid – of the very elements and features that made millions fall in love with Squaresoft all those years ago. Granted, the immediate argument for such a move is that progression and advancement means leaving old-fashioned ideas and mechanics behind, but you can boast innovation while retaining your fans. It really is possible. All I see is a company that suddenly has zero interest in Japanese gamers (let's face it; FFXIII sold like crazy on name-brand recognition alone), and continues to lump all Western gamers into the same group: the twitchy, must have crazy machismo in order to be entertaining, neanderthal crowd.
All I've got to say to that is, "thanks for repaying my loyalty with your assumption." You know, I'm suddenly reminded of the time when S-E brought up the idea of a Final Fantasy VII remake at their Twitter page, and the page exploded…and S-E was surprised . They were actually surprised , as if they really didn't know there were millions of old Squaresoft fans still out there; fans who may appreciate something like Deus Ex: Human Revolution but still miss the classic Square feel. And why is S-E basically only publishing now; do they only develop for Nintendo, or something? I think the bottom line is clear, and it's depressing for those who stare at their PS1 collections, realizing in dismay that in Square-Enix there is little to no semblance remaining of Squaresoft. They don't want to add to their fans (many of whom have already lost hope); they want to get new ones . Well, whatever. Seems illogical to me, but what the hell do I know?
I'm not interested in any S-E announcements/news anymore.
Everytime S-E opens its mouth lately, all we get is disappointment.
If I were a stockholder, I'd sell all my shares with S-E before it's too late.
In all honesty, it's like that old high school sweetheart you're still in love with. They've broken up with you, and you've even moved on to newer things. But it still stings whenever they start flirting or being enamored with someone else.
That sounds about right.
I waited until I could get FFXIII for $40, maybe I'll checkout Versus and Agito, but other than that, I think I'm about done with that series.
Oh how it'll be missed.
Plus, it sometimes burns when you pee.
I thought SE had lost their identity for a while, but it's obvious they threw it away.
Looks like the feelings between Square-Enix and gamers is turning into a hate-hate relationship. This should only get more interesting.
Last edited by Hezzron on 6/7/2010 9:55:47 PM
I believe the main reason in S-E doing everything you've mentioned in your article Ben, is because they most likely assume that their fans of the Squaresoft days, are either:
1. extremely small now, in terms of how many there are
2. much older (not exactly 60, but not 20 either), and therefore don't play as much games anymore; therefore, they don't see a need to cater to that audience (here, I am assuming that they are assuming that guys like you Ben, don't exist anymore, and they may know this by marketing research, for example)
3. part of the immensely large "twitch twitch must have crazy machismo" group of gamers (i.e. Today's largest segment of young gamers; I am not saying all young gamers are like that, because there are young gamers [Moi for example] that love games with stories and depth, and by young, I'm ranging from 12-16)
These are all of course, assumptions, but I personally wouldn't be surprised if this is all true.
On a sidenote, I remember reading an extensive interview from another gaming site on FFXIII with a couple guys at S-E (sorry, I forgot their names) saying that, with every new FF installment, they always strive to continually appease their existing fanbase (they said, "the ones that have always been with them") while picking up new fans in the process. Win-win for them, win-win for us no? I'm sorry I couldn't provide a link.
Oh, how times have changed (this interview was only from Summer 09!!!).
Last edited by Victor321 on 6/7/2010 9:57:41 PM
The tide changed with the announcement of FF XIII coming to 360 as well.
Remember all that buzz about content and towns being cut-out for the 360 version?
Final Fantasy games were all GOTY contenders. I don't think FF XIII is going to get a single nomination on the Western side.
As for Japan sales of FF XIII, its clear they came from name brand alone.
Victor: Oh, I well understand WHY Square-Enix is doing what they're doing and how they think. I just don't believe their reasoning is sound. Obviously, we're not all twitch gamers now, we're not stopping gaming because we're older, and the Square fans are just as loyal as ever.
But oh well…guess S-E will never know that.
I know you know that Ben =), it's just sad that they (Square Enix) don't….so sad….
Victor,
I'm a few days late to this topic, but oh well.
I just wanted to point out that there are quite a few ~20 old school SE fans out there. I live in a house with three other guys and we're all in our early twenties and have all been playing final fantasy games our entire lives. We get into heated debates on a daily basis about characters from Final Fantasy 4 and 6, and whether the magic system in Final Fantasy 1 sucked or not. And yes, we spend hundreds of dollars a month on video games.
We are out there, and spending tons of money. I just wish SE knew that.
When I was thinking (yesterday) of how great the first half of the year has been and how there have already been more legitimate GOTY contenders than in some full years (about a dozen), FFXIII didn't even come to mind. That speaks volumes.
The list: Alan Wake, Battlefield BC2, Bayonetta, BioShock 2, GOW III, Heavy Rain, Mass Effect 2, MGS Peace Walker, Mod Nation, Red Dead, and Super Mario Galaxy 2. I'm probably missing something (3D Dot, Just Cause, Split/Second, SSFIV) that'll get some votes. Not to mention the downloadable games.
That's a helluva year and we aren't even at E3.
Last edited by Fane1024 on 6/12/2010 5:59:27 PM
It is a sad realisation but I am right there with you Ben.
S-E is interested in taming the "western" market now and they could not care less about the original fan base. I place the blame on the explosion of FPS game sales. I'm not necessarily saying that the FPS genre is bad, if it were then it wouldn't have had such a boom. What I am saying is they saw the power of the dollar in action and decided that they must emulate it.
What they seem to fail to realise is that the FPS boom happened because FPS games make for great multiplayer-online experiences. And what is different about this console generation than those previous? Online is much more accessible. TADA!
Do they realise a lot of gamers are starting to back off of buying the next big FPS just because it is an FPS? Do they not realise that just because there was that boom it did not necessarily mark a paradigm shift(that isn't there as a pun) in the interest of all gamers?
There are still us out there that love RPG. We love turn-base. WE BUY FFVII AND FF:T ON THE PSN LIKE MAD!!!
Highlander always has a good argument that the gamer audience is segmented or some such, don't know the exact term he uses, but dammit he's right. Not everyone likes the same thing. And by god S-E did not get to be as big as they are making COD games.
There, I'm fricken done.
Their focus (pun intended) is easily translated: "We want Modern Warfare 2 type sales and we are willing to sh*tcan every masterpiece we once made in order to do it while sacrificing any and all semblance of artistic influence to achieve said commercial endeavor."
Couldn't have said it better myself World.
Maybe while they are working with Kojima, they'll learn to stop worrying about what gamers like and just make the game they want.
I need a new MGS fix for my PS3.
I have never witnessed such self destructive behavior. I got a news flash, people don't like a big middle finger in their face. Talk about being out of touch with gamers and reality. Just bear in mind your direction is the beginning of your downfall and prepare to lose a lot of money making games nobody wants.
I'm to the point where if SE really doesn't deliver soon I'm not going to care when they go under. In fact I'll be the person there outside their studio as they announce they are closing down saying "I told you so!" as I point and laugh at their stupidity.
Last edited by laxpro2001 on 6/7/2010 10:14:58 PM
I'll be right there with you ready to take a leak on their carcass.
I'm waiting for stock and revenue to take a massive slide too.
S-E have lost their freakin' minds. Unless they create a shooter with better graphics, better mechanics and more addictive gameplay than MW2, all they're doing is driving away the millions of fans who stuck by them in the first place.
Like World said, it's like middle finger to the fans who have been with them all along.
After all these disappointing announcements and horrible PR developments, I am actually hoping, yes, HOPING that S-E will go bankrupt, just so they learn their lesson.
Video gaming quality has taken such a huge dive with the success of the Wii and COD games. I weep for the future of this industry, especially if companies strive for quick cash grabs with mediocre brain-dead gaming products.
MEGA 64: In the year 2024, Activision presents New Mario Brothers 12!!!
"NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!"
They can release a game with Final Fantasy on it, and it'll sell millions.
It's what I wish too but I just can't see it happening.
@dancing machine,
And even if they did create said shooter, they would lose basically all their current fans.
@World,
Thats after you cut them down with your sword right?
@Snaaaake,
I wish that wasn't true but at this stage it seems so. Hopefully one day everyone will realize their disservice to us.
Last edited by laxpro2001 on 6/7/2010 10:36:53 PM
It is indeed self-destructive behavior. Perfect term for it.
"You know, I'm suddenly reminded of the time when S-E brought up the idea of a Final Fantasy VII remake at their Twitter page, and the page exploded…and S-E was surprised."
…something I said?
In order for Square the keep my interest they need to announce KH3 at E3. I'm fed up with waiting which I have been doing for almost 4 years now. Also fix the horrid magic system from the second game so its more like the first and don't you dare make it exclusive.
Honestly not too long ago I used to see a RPG developed by SE and not knowing anything about it, automatically being intrigued by it and inclined to pick it up.
Those days are gone now, and now I'm upset.
"and don't you dare make it exclusive."
Umm, am I reading this wrong? I think I am.
nope im just an idiot, meant it the other way around obviously. thanks
What type of new fan is going to invest in a company who is going to abandon them as soon as the market trend changes? Your reputation sets a precident on how you are going to proceed in the future. I wouldn't trust them for a second.
Oddly enough though a lot of people here did including me. As soon as CD became a better solution than cart they ditched Nintendo to do work on Sony machines. I guess we all should have seen this type of thing coming at some point.
Good point coverton.
You make a solid point Coverton, but they went with CDs in order to realize their vision for Final Fantasy VII, this time the only vision they have is dollar signs.
Not only that, it's genre changing move!!!!
Not a revolutionary move!!!
Excellent point coverton! I agree with you there world 100%
@dragon,
That would be true but think of the other people who play video games you know. How many of them actually stay up to date on news? Furthermore how many of them can actually name more than 5 publishers and developers? Finally how many of them play games aside from sports games developed by EA and MW2?
chances are you probably are one of the more informed gamers in your group of friends, then again I could be completely wrong, but my friends are exactly what I described up there.
While all gamers aren't that bad, a lot don't pay too much attention to the news or things outside their realm of playing video games. They won't be aware of how SE dicks over their loyal fans and the same is likely to happen to them without them having the slightest idea thats its been done before.
FFXIII is the last main FF I'm playing, and the last Square Enix games I'll be playing will be Versus XIII and Kingdom Hearts 3.
After that one Square Enix fan will be gone.
SE is a business, making games is a business, but screwing customers shouldn't be a part of that business. You want to make a ton of money? Fine by me, but you have to listen to the gamers. Like Ben said, it's insane that they were surprised an FFVII remake invited so much attention.
At least there are a few companies that can take over for SE. I just hope another series pops up that makes them go "Why did that company's JRPG outsell our Super Terrific Western FPS?"
Agree, my hate for them going multiplat was only temporary, but the hate for ditching us will last forever.
S-E only focus on sales and money. They don't give a crap about review scores.
Hopefully as more casual gamers turn hardcore, people will pay more attention to quality games, and the sales numbers will follow.
With Activision pushing COD and Halo now, we're in for a dark age and a possible repeat of 1982's video game crash. The hardcore have lost, the casual Wii crowd won. Square has abandoned their fans, and Western games are of higher quality than JRPGs. Japanese devs try to capture that crowd, but to no avail, thus leaving the JRPG enthusiast and long-time fan behind in the shadows.
Oh what dark times we live in.
@dancemachine,
How do you expect more casual gamers to turn into hardcore games with the current trend in video games?
Aside from Demons Souls and Ninja Gaiden, I can't remember the last games that challenged me. Also the fact that Demons Souls didn't even break a million yet is appalling especially considering the amazing quality of it.
Sorry but I think the sad truth is hardcore gamers are going to become more of a niche as casual games become more popular.
Sad times we live in Laxpro.
For COD and Halo to outsell Uncharted 2 and MGS4, and Demon's Souls, and God of War 3, all bigger GOTY competitors, just shows how far our once awesome industry has declined.
Wii Fit and Wii Play are the biggest selling games of this gen, what does that tell you?
Basically S-E are abandoning the hardcore fans for the uncaring, unknowing casual crowd who know nothing about them or their past.
Time to take ol' Essie (S-E) out the back with the farm rifle. She's damaged beyond repair.
Well put dancemachine
Squaresoft spent so much time and money building a fantastic reputation of quality RPG's under their name, and now they want to destroy it for new COD fans under Square Enix?
WHY!?!?!?!
Sales of FF XIII didn't help. Worst FF reviewed compared to other major FF titles, and yet it's the highest selling. Why?
Brand recognition. If it hadn't been "Final Fantasy XIII", I think the review scores would have been 2 points lower all around. Sure it looks pretty, but pretty can only do so much.
After hearing this announcement, I became so sad that my favourite RPG developer has shot itself in the heart and replaced it with a mechanical one that pumps artificial blood 5 times faster. As a metaphor, I mean artificial games with no real substance or heart made to make a quick buck.
Developers like S-E need to understand, COD was popular cos it was one game all your friends would play on their 360's or PS3's, meaning it was one title you could be certain of buying that would last you a long while online.
MW2 had the social gamer crowd, anyone with a console who could play a shooter. Very few developers could tap that crowd, especially if they're all just FPS fans with itchy trigger fingers.
S-E, please understand that these people have already made a choice to buy MW2 and COD games for a social experience with friends. You can't tap that market!!!! Your only chance is to retain your loyal old fans and expand with new ones, not dump them in favour of capturing the twitch gamer crowd, they don't care about your games!!!! REALLY!!!!
I am over S-E, I really am. Final Fantasy Vs XIII may be the last S-E game I get solely from them. And if they go multiplat with that one, God help us all.
R.I.P. Squaresoft. The memories you gave us will always remind us of what quality gaming was all about in the Golden Age of video games, 1985-2005. Your fans will miss you.
date should be 1985 -2006 at least. Can't forget KHII
Sorry to bring this example again. But it kinda reminds me of Metallica and how they wanted to "move on with the times."
It really is sad
The only thing we can do now is appreciate the OTHER jrpgs out there, Ar Tonelico, Agarest War, Shin Megami, White Knight Chronicles, etc.
Final Fantasy was special though. You always looked forward to EVERY character in the game. I still remember wondering what Tidus was going to be like and if Yuna was just going to be a dumb/useless 'princess.' Then in XII I wondered what Basch was like and if he was interested in Ashe and what the whole relationship with Balthier and Fran was like.
I wonder when they'll announce FFXV. Sadly I don't see it being announced this year.
Ar Tonelico III looks like it's coming Stateside, that game looks like some good old fashioned JRPG fun.
Ahem… which is why they are considering bringing Versus to the 360.
Link: kotaku.com/5541802/final-fantasy-versus-xiii-on-xbox-360-squares-looking-into-it
Last edited by Mystearica on 6/7/2010 10:50:20 PM
thats old and the update he made on his twitter account had a bit of backtracking. I do think it will find its way on the 360. I dont trust a word that Wada says, i just wish they would have stated it was going multiplatform from the get go, whats the point of lying about it?
Infamous 2 FIRST SCANS!!!
Goto this link Now!
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=110903&page=1&str=899447082
OT, OT, OT…
Ben, deal with him…as only you know how.