As you may have already noticed, there are instances of pretty controversial situations in Rockstar's latest epic title, Red Dead Redemption . It's hardly surprising, as the game is essentially Grand Theft Auto in the Old West.
Hence, it's bound to raise the ire of many an anti-game activist and/or concerned parent. But this time, before the sh** hits the fan (which may be inevitable, after the reports of killing children and nuns go mainstream), Rockstar has decided to be proactive in their explanations. As most all gamers know, the ESRB places these things called "ratings" on video games – much the same way the MPAA does for movies – and yes, there are indeed plenty of games that aren't made for kids. This isn't 1984. And if you're a responsible parent, chances are, you aren't going to be buying RDR or GTAIV for your 9-year-old; if you do, even Rockstar condemns you. The developer's Lazlow Jones had this to say in a recent interview with the BBC :
"Our games are not designed for young people. If you’re a parent and buy one of our games for your child you’re a terrible parent. We design games for adults because we’re adults. There’s a lot of kids games out there that we’re not interested in playing. Just like you enjoy watching movies and TV shows with adult themes and language and violence that’s the kind of thing we seek to produce."
You know, it's just downright ridiculous that Rockstar should even have to make this statement. The ESRB has done everything they can for quite a long time to educate parents and other consumers, and if such parties wish to remain ignorant and still believe that all games feature nothing more than interactive cartoons, game designers can't be held responsible. No, don't go buy Red Dead Redemption for the kid in 4th grade. While we're talking about it, don't rent Saw for him, either…and don't let him drink the stuff under the sink. Need any other helpful albeit absurdly obvious advice?
argh… I reject the notion of grand the auto in the wild west… red dead actually has a soul.
Dude, the gameplay is EXACTLY the same.
dude, it isn't. why else can I absolutely hate GTA IV but love Red Dead.
There is so much more to do in Red Dead, so much more attention to detail, so much love for the spaghetti western, they don't compare.
Well the game did come out almost three years after GTA IV so I would certainly hope that it surpass it in every level.Also, without GTA there would be no such thing as RDR.
nope, it's the same right down to the buttons, the GPS, the level of interaction, and the way the missions are set up.
Im with you smokey.
RDR isnt a GTA clone. Its far from it. I cant compare the two. Im in the same position as you except i had fun with GTA4, it just didnt have any substance. RDR has tons of it for me to grasp on to.
So the missions might be set up kind of similiar, and the gps works the same. Well that could be said about a lot of sand box games. If R* didnt develop this game i dont think it would get the comparison.
No, World is right. There's absolutely no reason to hate one and like the other, besides personal preference and setting. That's it. The mechanics are basically the same, the structure is the same, and there is NOT more attention to detail or more to do. That's all in your head if you think that.
One thing I don't like about the multiplayers for GTA4 and RDR is that both have clumsy controls for the fast paced online actions. It is almost impossible to switch weapons in RDR without getting killed. I played RDR after Uncharted 2. I didn't realized I was taking the smooth controls of Uncharted for granted. RDR online is just making my fingers tying in knots trying to jump/climb, take cover, or switching weapons. The game was so fun single player, but I can't see any improvements in multiplayer since GTA4.
It's like saying the gameplay is the same for Halo and Killzone. No, just no. Just putting the differences down to setting and personal preference? shortchanging it much?
Even just herding cattle, is just 1 example of something which is just on a complete level of immersion removed from GTA.
Edit/ I'll rephrase, I'm more like bigrailer, I just found no substance to GTA, no "soul" again. Red Dead Redemption actually has that. Perhaps to truely get the most out of it you need to love spaghetti westerns like me, not many seem to realise it was made to emulate them.
Last edited by SmokeyPSD on 5/24/2010 1:04:27 AM
I can see the Spaghetti Westerns in it easily, but you kind of proved my point old smokey, you like it more because the setting and tone are something you already enjoyed a lot beforehand. Other than that the games are like fraternal twins.
I haven't proved any point whatsoever of yours. fact is Redemption has depth. GTA doesn't. In story and in the amount of gameplay on offer. I'm not the only one thinking it, so please don't twist my opinions.
@Smokey
Yep Halo and Killzone are the same game and COD1 and COD2 and even doom, the setting and story that differs, so I'm with World in that one .sorry
I hated GTA IV and I'll pass on RDR, Yep I'm this cool
haha Teg3sh…
Sure RDR and GTA have similiarites in the way they were developed, were talking about the same developer, they stick to what they know, and what works…
But, GTA had no immersion into it, none what so ever for me. RDR does. And it has a lot of it. The hud may look the same, but what sand box game doesnt have a radar, and a map marker system. There was mjch more thought put into RDR and it has some RPG elements, unlike GTA which was bland from the guns to the so called story. I had fun with GTA but thats it, i absolutely adore RDR though. Two completely different games in my eyes. Again if RDR was developed by someone else it wouldnt be as easily compared to GTA.
But again this is just how I feel. If you guys wanna compare it to GTA thats fine. But personally I dont think it needs to be compared to it to get people to like it! The game can speak volumes about its self the moment you pop it in!
Smokey, you're not right on this. You're really not. Because you herd cattle it's different? You're missing the point; we're talking about BASIC mechanics and functions. In this respect, it controls very much the same way. It's a third person shooter that offers cover; you can jump, auto-aim, etc. The Dead Eye doesn't change the basic mechanic function.
Furthermore, this "no depth" statement is just plain wrong. What can you do in RDR you couldn't do in GTAIV? And don't be all surface and cosmetic like with the herding example… You can accept secondary jobs, earn money, purchase property, utilize different modes of travel, follow a storyline, participate in optional missions outside the storyline, purchase items and equipment, etc, etc, etc.
I have yet to find an actual gameplay mechanic in RDR that was not in GTAIV. You can dislike GTAIV all you want; STOP trying to tell people it sucks just because you couldn't find a way to enjoy it. This is ALL personal preference in this argument; you're going to have to accept that.
I think there is more than enough of a distinction in RDR and GTA to say that while a lot of it's the same what's different makes each game have it's own identity. For instance can you hogtie bounties or hunt in GTA 4? Could you save a man from being hung?
This game has all the mechanics of GTAIV ,as world said from GPS,to missions,almost everything .But it still has its own unique feeling and sense of immersion.For me its the story and setting which I like very much, makes me forget that it has GTA roots.
Last edited by Silent_J on 5/24/2010 3:08:59 PM
@ bigrailer19
believe me I'm not hating on GTA, after Vice city which is one of my fav game of all time it kindda lost its charms, thats being said I can relate to what ur saying. I loved the first Halo but by the third one I was Kinda feed up with it, the same with GTA or RDR. thats all.
GOW3 got less than a perfect score due to this concept followed by most critics, yes it's great and yes it's awesome but it was the same as 2 & 1 . Thats all I'm saying not hating on anybody or there style of gaming. 😉
teg3sh, yeah me either. I can see why people compare it to GTA, but to me its not comparable to GTA. what it does great and way better than GTA rminds me of that constantly.
Bens defense is all the mechanics are the same, the missions are displayed the same as your do them, the radar is the same, ok so be it. Those elements relate to a ton of sandbox games out there! And its ok to compare games its what relates other games to people.
All im saying is RDR is in its own right able to stand on its own two legs without GTA being compared to it. I liked GTA but not as a story driven game, just as a fun game to play. As I said in another post I could bet 60% of the people who bought and played GTA didnt finish it because, they had more fun just driving the cars, and pickin up hookers, and shootin people in the heads. Well with that said, Riding a horse is awesome but you wouldnt think as much fun as a car you can't jump it ;), but R* pulled it off. Then hookers well, Marstin is married so, that displays great amounts of detail on R* part to relate that, i mean he could be unfaithful. and as you can shoot people in the heads there is a much more at risk in RDR. outside of town you can get away with it, but lose fame and honor, inside town yeah the cops come which makes a fun time, but you still lose fame and honor. There is a bigger sacrifice. and these are just 3 examples but big ones in relation to the story and how you play the game. Something GTA didnt have. It really shows how great a game is when R* can make a western more fun that the often seen city setting, let alone make riding a horse as much fun as driving a car.
Bottom line from here on out, even though GTA is the predecessor, RDR has made the standard. As I said RDR can stand on its own two feet, and it proved that to me as soon as I put it in!
Last edited by bigrailer19 on 5/24/2010 6:48:15 PM
You can talk to me about all the gameplay mechanics that are in RDR from Gta iv until the cows come home (fitting no?) but ur missing the point. The level of presentation, immersion like others and me are talking about sets it apart, a game is more than the some of it's parts, simply pointing to basic gameplay mechanics and saying LOOK SAME, that's quite a simplistic approach. Are you saying just because you can hunt pigeons in GTA that you can hunt in IV too? That's just LUDICROUS.
I'm not blind, I can see the GTA in it, it is afterall done by the same people. however this time they have actually come of age, and the violent content matches the maturity of the story. The mechanics are however just that, mechanics, I can see a lot in it that is unique to Red Dead, you guys obviously can't and just feel it's GTA on horses, but don't just tell me I'm wrong as my thoughts are my own AND others.
@bigrailer19
I really know what ur sayin, but as I never played RDR, just playn GTA IV. it could be better it could be the best game ever, I'm certainly not judging that, all I'm sayn I really got kinda bored of GTA IV so thats why I'm passing on RDR.
P.S. I'm one of those guys who just ran over pedestrians and hocked up with hockers so I'm kinda lame. Still kinda kewl though .lol
Smokey you've gotta be kidding me, you use the herding cattle example to say their not alike? the only reason its different is because gta isnt a western game…its essentially the same game but in western times, so there are differnet types of missions. whatcha smokin smokey
"Children under four shouldn't smoke."
Good response from Rockstar. How would the masses like it if we insisted there be no violence in their movies because we assume all movies must be made so that children can watch them?
That's it. I can't take it anymore.
WorldEndsWithMe for President.
I'd be happy to accept the nomination 🙂
You now, I used to play games like wolfenstein, doom, mortal kombat and duken nukem when I was 5-6 years old, and they didn't affect me in any ways. I also used to play san andreas and vice city at the age of 12-13.
So it really depends on the kind of child that plays these "mature" games. Of course, I had a brother that used to tell me that it was a game and not real life, and that really worked.
Last edited by hellish_devil on 5/23/2010 10:10:01 PM
While I was older when the gory games really began to come out I was still a teen and I played em all, plus I watched the goriest movies of all time as a little tike and I haven't killed a real person yet.
Well, except LimitedVertigo, I killed him and that's why he hasn't been on 🙂
Same with me, it depends on the child. I honestly believe that exposure to some gore is necessary for a child to become mature, hopefully they understand its just a game.
But videogames should be treated just like movies. Rate them and parents and distributors (sellers) of the product are responsible for selling and buying. If they ban violent video games they had better ban violent movies to be consistent.
Hmm I was wondering about his disappearance.
R.I.P.
LimitedVertigo
?-2010
World you could of left off the part where you said "yet".
You never know TES, I like to cover my bases 😉
LOL.
BTW. LV is alive and I hope well. I saw him logged on psn earlier.
Last edited by tes37 on 5/24/2010 12:39:04 AM
You mean he escaped the sharks with lasers on their heads?
😛 I was hoping that he would log on and say something. Oh well ill save my phoenix down joke for another day!
depends on the child. who are we to know what impact it can have on him/her? Granted, I played Wolfenstein as a kid and didn't bother me, but the photorealism these days makes me wonder if for kids nowadays is it still as easy to distinguish fantasy from reality?
Where the hell is LV. I know most of the ppl in here think he is a jerk.lol but I really liked all of his comments ok ok most of his comment.
Cmon LV I can't be the bad guy on this site alone, Robbin position is wide open again, and yes I was batman.lol
@World:
Thank God, I was hoping someone do that to a huge prick like him….
f'n thank you rockstar. shove it!
This…is…equal…to…a…rated…R…movie…NO KIDS!!!
I blame food stamps.
You know, there is some wisdom to be found in your post.
No matter what little children do, no matter where they learn it from, be it video games, movies, comics etc.
In the end, the ones at fault are the parents.
They should bear in mind the main objectives for making games are for money and entertainment.
Not once developers made games just so they can corrupt children's mind unless they're a bunch of Satanist.
Maybe that's microsoft's upcoming first party game: how to be a satanist (Rated E for Everyone)
Difference between Eastern and Western games?
Eastern games cater to everyone (all age groups can handle their games)
In the West it's always targeting strategy (Oh, only adults can handle GTA) <— Bunch of Bullcrap
Well then parents always find an excuse to blame violence on gta. I know I bought my 2 yr old the game because I knew it was violent so when he grows up and beats me I can blame the game. Duh!
I can't understand why parents freak out when they find out that that "harmless little game" they bought for their kid involved stealing cars and shooting people… when that game is Grand Theft Auto IV… even the title implies illicit activity. It'd be like bringing a kid to a movie named Assisted Suicide VII. Oh yeah, and that big M on the cover that says Mature 17+ there's a reason that's on more than one game, it's not a logo it's a rating, just like movies. I have no idea why this continues to be a problem when an age limit is clearly posted. I agree with Ben on this one, it's sad that R* even has to comment
I had to play the PG version of it today, like horse-breaking, picking herbs, deer hunting, and horse racing, so my daughter could watch me play a little. Too bad it's a pain in the *ss to make games with content filters, I would set it and let her play.
A few times she had to leave the room when I got caught up in some situations she shouldn't see. She is all kinds of jealous because she can't play, but I explained that I was avoiding aspects of the game while she was present and made it appear as if the game were suitable. She doesn't live with me so I don't have to worry about her sneaking around to play it.
Good parenting though 🙂
It's a shame R* feels the need to explain this kind of thing every time they put out one of their great games.
Could you imagine Jack Daniels doing the same for every new bottle of whiskey?
Maybe if enough developers and journalists say this often enough, it will finally penetrate the thick skulls of the mass market, mass media and politicians.
And then again, I just saw a few pigs practicing their barrel rolls and loops.
You guys slay me, when I like a GOW clone I must be an idiot, but when you like a GTA clone it must be vastly different because you didn't like GTAIV. Besides, I'm loving RDR. A little backup here Ben?