Ben-DutkaYeah, this is bound to cause some discussion. But we're not about to get dragged into an endless JRPG/WRPG battle, especially because one genre is beginning to look and play a lot like the other these days.
At any rate, BioWare Writing Director Daniel Erickson has opened up a can of worms by addressing Square-Enix's Final Fantasy XIII in a recent interview with Strategy Informer . In talking about Star Wars: The Old Republic , Erickson was asked about the the importance of storyline in his game, and FFXIII was mentioned. His reply is bound to raise the ire of JRPG fans:
"Well, before I address the main point I just want to take a slightly more controversial route: You can put a 'J' in front of it, but it's not an RPG. You don't make any choices, you don't create a character, you don't live your character… I don't know what those are – adventure games maybe? But they're not RPG's."
Obviously, he's not only talking about FFXIII, but just about any RPG where you don't create a character and follow a linear storyline. Essentially, this means he doesn't believe any Final Fantasy is an RPG, and other Japanese franchises like Suikoden are out, too. It's an argument that just doesn't die, but we will say that the more you give "choice" to the player, the less you can focus on a cohesive, engaging story. At some point, you get to a position where there is no story; just a lot of wandering around on the part of the player. That may be "true" role-playing but…well, it's not worth getting into, is it?
Related Game(s): Final Fantasy XIII
Im really happy for you… And I'mma let you finish… But Final Fantasy is one of the greatest RPG series of all time. THE GREATEST RPG SERIES OF ALL TIME! Jus saying.
I couldn't resist lol
Last edited by mustang750r on 5/14/2010 9:22:23 AM
That's a classic…
RPG = Role Playing Game
JRPG = Japanese Role Playing Game.
Role Playing Game is when you take a role of a character and play and experience a story as a character or set of characters. (Not to mention that the Japanese CREATED the RPG) The J is put in front of it because other people started making RPGs, and now, BioWare is left looking kind of racist actually. They have never made an RPG that I can consider a real RPG, anyway.
Last edited by DeathOfChaos on 5/14/2010 10:10:11 AM
"BioWare is left looking kind of racist actually."
Seriously?
"(Not to mention that the Japanese CREATED the RPG)"
Ummm…no, they didn't. Gary Gygax (et al.) did, which is the whole point of this article.
Do all of you who are defending the JRPG actually believe the JRPG came first?
Last edited by Fane1024 on 5/22/2010 2:58:41 PM
the only game that represents a real RPG is RPG MAKER.
"Isn't Role-Playing"? I didn't think it was a matter of opinion. JRPGs are, well, RPGs! I'm a huge Bioware fan but his choice of words are poor here.
I really can't stand developers that run their mouth.
Bioware is one of my favorites too. I am on my 2nd play through of Dragon Age, and have 82% of trophies. I really like the way they design RPG's.
Anyways, there is more then one way to skin a cat.
i totally agree
Well if this isn't the stupidest thing I've ever read. Arguing over which is greater? Bad mouthing WRPGs because you can't figure out what the story is? Bad mouthing JRPGs because you can't make your own character? What a bunch of nonsense.
Gamers everywhere should be on their knees thanking Square, Bioware, Bethesda and Level-5 for giving us some of the greatest games of this generation.
I don't think this is nonsense in the slightest. It's a great debate, perhaps it got a little too personal for whatever reason.
I would ask you, do you think intellectuals only talk about transubstantiation? Intellectuals will discuss anything and everything. That includes comparing games, whether they be computer or pen and paper or between both. These are games and regardless we can, and should, be able to compare and contrast them all.
I would ask though, why are RPG's from Japan put into a sub-genre of JRPG's? Is it only because of where they are made? Or is it perhaps much deeper? When I lived in Japan for two years I never saw any WRPG style games for sale in Japan. Why, because the Japanese will take something, change it, adapt it to their sensibilities and make it their own. Thus making a new type of game. WRPG's just don't appeal as much to the Japanese, and that's fine.
My personal tastes tend to more open game style RPG's rather than strict linear kinds. There's still a story, but there's more freedom. And for that reason I believe JRPG's are less like the pen and paper kind than WRPG's.
My bias is that I played the pen and paper kind of RPG, Warhammer mostly, and that's where I get my definition of RPG from.
Last edited by Hawkeye on 5/14/2010 3:46:04 PM
I used to play Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay everyday during my high-school years. Fond memory of that game. I still have the books. 😀
mass effect isn't an rpg.
Ironic thing is the dude from Bioware admits that JRPG's might as well be included in the adventure genre. In my mind, those two genre's are very closely-related, and even overlapping. So, it's obvious the dude was just sh*t-stirring for the sake of publicity.
When i was playing ME2, it felt more like a cross between GTA4 and R&C than anything particularly RPG'ish. I still thoroughly enjoyed the experience. I haven't played DA, but as others have noticed, and like Kraygen said, it seems more like FF, than not.
Genres are really just loose labels to help us discuss and (make frames of reference for comparison, evaluation and purchase). So it kind of defeats the purpose to split hairs over them, especially when games are increasingly evolving and defying these said genres.
Personally speaking, I put 50 hours into Fallout 3 and am 15 hours into Final Fantasy XIII. Loving both games.
Obviously there is a place for both JRPG and WRPG's. It's all a matter of perspective.
Do you want the attractive cutscenes, the melodrama and the "turn" based (yes I even think the paradigm battles in FFXIII are basically turn based), or do you want more gritty realism, molding characters (which reduces cutscenes)guns/swords and more "real time" action like Oblivion.
Room for both I think. They still have a RPG root just adapting differently for the HD gaming platforms.
Sometimes you want to get swept away with a story and othertimes you want to use your imagination a bit more.
I think imagination is pretty important. We are all losing that spark that allows us to approach and interact with games differently to each other.
No two gamers should have the exact same experience with a game. It should affect everyone differently.
The role in RPG is what you make it.
Translation: If it's not made by Bioware, it's not really an RPG.
I feel a lot of arrogance from Bioware on this topic. I do hope no one else gets this translation:
We're Bioware, and we're great, so what we say goes, and any of you that disagree are puffy eyed mouth breathers.
"We're Bioware, and we're great, so what we say goes, and any of you that disagree are puffy eyed mouth breathers. "
Yes, I can see where the writing director saying he didn't think FF XIII was an RPG would come across as that.
what a stupid opinion, WRPG are just an evolution of Diablo, an action game, which is an evolution of Gauntlet, an action game too. The RPG management and strategy is just pushing buttons to cause damage or heal.
Now in all kinds of games you have RPG elements : FPS, with upgrading capacities, weaponry and armor, racers, with tuning card and getting new ones, Golf, with bettering your capacities and buying new equipment … but they're not RPGs!!!
JRPG, with the turn based system allows infinitely more possibilities (such as 20 spells, 20 special attacks, 100 different items,…) allowing each player to develop his team and their powers, and to fully control all characters so that each action is important.
OK that is before FFXIII happened and killed the license and the genre with gameplay for noobs, and a negligible levelling system.
I found it utterly cumbersome the DA: O system where you fight in real time mashing buttons, pause to cast some specific spells, change to another character to use items … then come back to real time battle.
They just did an evolution of a sub-genre that doesn't give half the fun of the first Diablo or Darkstone.
Last edited by TheTenth on 5/15/2010 6:59:36 PM
I agree with everyone who see's this as nothing more than Bioware arrogance.
The addition of nothing BUT choice in WRPGS such as The Elder Scrolls series, DA:O, or Fallout 3 have made for some of the lamest and depthless storylines I've played in my 23+ years of rpg gaming.
JRPGs will always be my favirote, but I love WRPGs that give us a deep, well written, character-driven story just as much. There is a very short list of WRPGs that do this though including titles such as Mass Effect, The Witcher(not western technically, but the style of gameplay is), or older titles such as Arcanum and Betrayel at Krondor. The old Fallout was a perfect example as well, but the story took much more of a focus than the barelly represented one in Fallout 3.
RPG, taken literally from a D&D perspective, does not represent JRPGs, but that isn't the real definition of an RPG. Choice doesn't define an "RPG".
To take a role is simply to be taken into the character, to see the world through the characters eyes, not to necassarily drive the storyline through your choices. You're meant to play as *a character* in *their* story, playing the role. Technically, almost any videogame with an involved plotline is an RPG.
The point is, grow up Bioware. You've had some great rpgs, but just because you feel threatened by having to share your market with the resurgance of interest in the JRPG that a Final Fantasy title always brings, doesn't mean you have the right to bash them.
Personally I loved Bioware until this statement, now this guy makes them sound like Cliffy B or the creator of Fable or any number of arrogant designers our there.
Last edited by Jotun on 5/16/2010 12:05:13 AM
I agree with that Bioware guy but still, a good RPG or JRPG as he said, always has a roburst story line. With knowing, that FFXIII wasn't best recieved by experienced players, many new players liked the story. Yes the story may be fixed but it really is still very enjoyable game in the end, with lots of RPG in it.
Daniel Erickson eats babies to fuel his dark energies. I hear he also kicks puppies for fun and refuses to help old ladies cross the street.
He also eats raw veal, drives a Hummer that has a bumper sticker that reads "Oil slicks don't kill birds – I do!", and he's related to Attila the Hun by direct blood lines, his hobbies include ear collecting and tearing the heads of Jelly Babies.
Is there anything else we can say about him?
He rips off the "Do not remove" tags from mattresses with impunity.