This story really got me thinking.
Not so much about the inherent difficulties for gamers when their interactive hobby continues to resemble virtual reality more and more with every passing year. That's what Medal of Honor executive producer Greg Goodrich was talking about, but it led me to the interesting question: can more realistic violence create serious problems? Most will quickly say that violent games have ratings and that movies have been putting horrific stuff on the big screen for decades. But at the same time, we have to acknowledge that gaming is an interactive hobby, and the belief that we're actually "doing something" is more potent with more realism and authenticity. As we continue to advance in this area, might it be dangerous, even for well-adjusted adults? Essentially, if you really think about it, some of the more over-the-top action games could be accurately considered to be "killing simulators" in the not-so-distant future. I'm not in favor of censorship here but I've always been a firm believer that you can always go too far.
Personally, I think I'd start to feel a little uneasy when we get to the point where killing someone really does look too much like killing a real human. Take last year's Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 , for instance: just about everyone I know, Arnold included, felt – at the very least – uneasy during that airport scene. This proves something to me. I just saw it and I didn't really find it enjoyable; in fact, I didn't want to watch any more of it. Looking five, ten, fifteen years down the road, I'm starting to wonder if I'll even be able to play those games that make me feel this way. But perhaps the question is, will it have a marked psychological impact? Gamers often frown at studies but I really think this is one bit of research thought ought to be conducted.
P.S. The pic here is an example of "cartoon-y violence" from Bayonetta . This obviously isn't the type of violence I speak of, but it's a solid picture, no?
Hey wait a sec, why was I downvoted? Was it because I let my baby brother watch a guy's head get pulled off? I don't see the harm done, I mean, hes TWO. I don't think he'll remember it when hes older.
Hey wait a sec, why was I downvoted? Was it because I let my baby brother watch a guy's head get pulled off? I don't see the harm done, I mean, hes TWO. I don't think he'll remember it when hes older.
Hey wait a sec, why was I downvoted? Was it because I let my baby brother watch a guy's head get pulled off? I don't see the harm done, I mean, hes TWO. I don't think he'll remember it when hes older.
Hey wait a sec, why was I downvoted? Was it because I let my baby brother watch a guy's head get pulled off? I don't see the harm done, I mean, hes TWO. I don't think he'll remember it when hes older.
Hey wait a sec, why was I downvoted? Was it because I let my baby brother watch a guy's head get pulled off? I don't see the harm done, I mean, hes TWO. I don't think he'll remember it when hes older.
Hey wait a sec, why was I downvoted? Was it because I let my baby brother watch a guy's head get pulled off? I don't see the harm done, I mean, hes TWO. I don't think he'll remember it when hes older.
Hey wait a sec, why was I downvoted? Was it because I let my baby brother watch a guy's head get pulled off? I don't see the harm done, I mean, hes TWO. I don't think he'll remember it when hes older.
Hey wait a sec, why was I downvoted? Was it because I let my baby brother watch a guy's head get pulled off? I don't see the harm done, I mean, hes TWO. I don't think he'll remember it when hes older.
Hey wait a sec, why was I downvoted? Was it because I let my baby brother watch a guy's head get pulled off? I don't see the harm done, I mean, hes TWO. I don't think he'll remember it when hes older.
Hey wait a sec, why was I downvoted? Was it because I let my baby brother watch a guy's head get pulled off? I don't see the harm done, I mean, hes TWO. I don't think he'll remember it when hes older.
Hey wait a sec, why was I downvoted? Was it because I let my baby brother watch a guy's head get pulled off? I don't see the harm done, I mean, hes TWO. I don't think he'll remember it when hes older.
Hey wait a sec, why was I downvoted? Was it because I let my baby brother watch a guy's head get pulled off? I don't see the harm done, I mean, hes TWO. I don't think he'll remember it when hes older.
HA – this has to be the most multi-posts EVAR!
more people might notice a moving cardboard box too.
ffrulez Vinnni… I see you've now had your share of bad manual driving experience for our NZ roads.
Trust me though, GT still has most of the transmission physics right. Who would actually want to stall in a game when racing online? Haha. No kids and no adults hopefully.
Besides, that's what getting a G25, G27 or a Fanatec wheel is for, since they have clutches so you can practice heel-and-toe.. like a pro'.
;D
I'm straight up against censorship. I'm all for anything and everything. Some games and movies really promote desensitization. Not that we should murder anyone anytime soon.
Nobody is doing the kind of things they do on GTA. I always thought those games proved other wise to the VG violence naysayers.
Some people's brains are just so frigging miswired, they feel that they have to go out on a killing spree & shoot up malls, schools, places of employment, etc these these days.
Now with that said, I hate most censorship so I'm for realism, & besides I seriously doubt that any of those real killings were caused by playing video games.
No "snuff" video games though, that's where I think every gamer would draw the line in the sand for censorship on that.
I think Right Wing rhetoric is far more likely to incite real life violence than a game.
Yeah, those damn tea partiers, wanting to maintain their freedoms and what not.
World, I see masked Tom Cruise is back.
I still miss the hawaiian shirt ninja. Bring him back sooner rather than later! At least that is my girlish fantasy.
It's a good thing everybody's freedoms are intact then, and stop calling me Tom Cruise I'm not gay and I don't jump on couches 😉
Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 4/15/2010 12:28:59 AM
You mean the right wing rhetoric we hear about on from the brilliance of Chris Mathews and lefty media?
it was right wingers calling bush those nasty names! Damn you wingnuts!
Nice article Ben. You've mentioned some research on violent entertainment before. I would like to see some research into this topic as well. Technology is at the point where realistic images and models can be manipulated in real time. I'm not comfortable with the idea of games accurately depicting death and injury in a context that is free from consequences for the actions of the player.
Personally I think that we are too close to the uncanny valley on violence already. Any closer to that situation where the game resembles an enhanced authenticity, "more real than real" so to speak, and I think we will cross a line we don't need to cross.
For me a game is a game as long as it's clearly a game. If a first or third person action game is so realistic that when an enemy is beheaded you can pick our anatomically correct arteries, spinal column, esophagus and other details of the bloody stump, then it's gone too far. It's ceased to be a 'game'. When someone is disemboweled and their insides fall out precisely as they really would because the physics are so real and the modeling of the enemy body is so real that the results of being disemboweled can be accurately modeled in real time, then again, we have gone too far.
In a first person action game, a shooter for example, when shooting enemies they fall and die in a realistic manner with photo-realistic detail, then once again I think we have have crossed from game to something else.
The scene you mention feeling uncomfortable about, that's the kind of thing that people will argue should be there because it's artistic, it makes you think. Well, perhaps, but is Call of Duty really a game that's laden with social commentary, or is it an action game?
BIker, you said no "snuff" games. OK, but we're at the point where a video game that was rendered in 480p could present photo-realistic deaths of characters and enemies. Remembering that the experience of the gamer is what matters, how is it different that the gamer experiences a photo-realistic simulation of a deal instead of a real one when they can't honestly tell the difference?
If a game can be realistic enough that it's possible to be unsure of whether the scene depicted or not is real, aren't w getting to the point where a virtual snuff game could be made? Have we already got there and we're just desensitized to it and ignore it?
I think that violent entertainment is more dangerous socially speaking than sexual entertainment. I think that the interactive nature of video games makes them potentially more dangerous because you are acting out the fantasy. We live in an increasingly violent society. Have video games simply reflected the increasing violence, or have they re-enforced it in the more vulnerable minds of the young? I'm not blaming video games for it, but could they be a contributing factor? Possibly.
Perhaps it's time to concentrate on the art of games and not the realism?
Last edited by TheHighlander on 4/14/2010 11:49:16 PM
You bring up an interesting point, is it okay for me to slice up a human being and watch their guts spill out? You say no. But when I am clearly disemboweling a mythical creature such as a Centuar in GOWIII is THAT okay just because it isn't a real being?
Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 4/14/2010 11:55:08 PM
It's a good question isn't it?
I think that the distinction is that the centaur is clearly unreal, but a realistically modeled human enemy would be more difficult to separate from real. However, it's still an interesting question.
Perhaps we should be asking ourselves the question "Just because we can, should we?"
"Just because we can, should we?" The Jurassic Park movies would argue that no, we shouldn't 🙂
Highlander,
There's some very thought provoking questions here.
Just beacause on one side I don't like any censorship, but on the other hand I wouldn't want to see video game violence become too damned real either.
OH BTW, I left you a article to check out in yesterday's "PSP/Touchscreen Functionality" thread.
Thanks, I'll go check. I've been keeping a low profile, my time has been limited the last few days….
…Interesting. That would be a great controller to have around in case a controller for any of your game systems broke – you'd have an instant replacement. Nice.
Last edited by TheHighlander on 4/15/2010 1:37:51 AM
has anybody noticed how youtube is no longer available on the ps3 web browser?
Yes. And I feel like I could kill somebody.
still works on youtubeXL. but no comments etc
The biggest problem I see isn't in violence or sex, but in the idea that we very would could be playing a game one day that looks just like a show on TV or Movie. Because, well, that would just suck. I like the overly crisp vistas, various art styles, impossibly shaped women, flashier than reality graphics, etc and so forth that games offer.
I think right now because we're at that point where the technology behind the games has advanced enough to make the violence convincing, we'll see more games pushing this boundary between fiction and reality. I think for some not so well adjusted people it could be a problem for sure but I also believe that they're in a minority and would probably be high risk regardless of the source material. For the rest of us I think that we'll get so used to seeing this realistic violence in our games that we'll be desensitized to it much the same way we are with the movies. Not long ago movies would be banned for violence only to be released now to a more accustomed audience (Texas Chainsaw Massacre (original), Clockwork Orange just to name two movies). Even the level of violence in movies these days has risen and even gotten to the point where it's gotten boring to see this 'torture porn' in every horror movie franchise (Saw, Hostal etc…), the best horrors movies coming out now are the ones where less violence and more suspense are presented.
I think games will follow in much this fashion. To see nudity in a game is nothing now much the same as it is in the movies but years ago at the pinacle when the people behind the games/movies where pushing the boundarys on what was common decency of the time, of course there where people who had something to say about it but did everyone who watched these movies where a lady flashed a pair of boobs become perverts? Sure some people did but the rest of us just acted like adults. Then again it's not about being adult, it's about being well adjusted and more to do with your natural surroundings, where you live, the type of life you live and how the everyday trails and tribulations of life affect you as person. This could also attribute to the types of games you enjoy most. Some people play for fun some to escape reality. Some play Rathet and Clanks for fun, some play CoD's because the boss is a pain in the arse in work and it feels nice to shoot up some baddies to vent that stress. Some take it too far and grab a real gun and shoot the boss but just because one or two people take it to the extreme and live that dream, the rest of us are contant to leave it in the fictional world and would never even realistically consider it.
Hi to lot of yis from Thailand btw, was just popping in to say hello!!!
Last edited by frostface on 4/15/2010 12:34:32 AM
Ummmmm…..paragraphs and spacing would have been nice there.
Yep you're right, I'm pretty bad for paragraphing, usually just type a train of thought and it all goes out the window…I'm thumbing you up for bringing it to my attention!!! 🙂
Just so everyone here understands A Clockwork Orange was not banned under normal circumstances. Youths did not understatnd the films message about censoring free will and went around replicating acts of violence seen in the beginning of the film. the film was removed from the UK due to the overload of death threats Stanely recieved; so Stanley removed the film himself.
I think using the MW2 scene was just a jab at the game! GOW3 was much more brutal and realistic, with the zipper technology and gutting minotaurs, and ripping off helios' head. It was bloody realistic.
So which game was worse? well on a personal level MW2 didnt sit well with others, that scene as you said Ben you wanted it to be over as did I. I tried not even firing my gun but i got to a point where to get past it i had to take on the riot squad eventually.
But as far as how far can violence go I dont think GOW3 was pushing it because its all so fairy tale like. I mean greek mythology is just that a myth. a very brilliant story for the GOW series but we cant relate that to real life situations so both games are on a different level. One is about how we feel personally towards a scene, the other part of it would be how we react to how realistic violence in games has become, due to the graphical capabilities of this generation of consoles.
Its tough to say but im ok with the way things are now, and i had no problems with GOW3 in fact thats what that game was bread on, CHAOS!
Last edited by bigrailer19 on 4/15/2010 12:16:31 AM
Sure you can relate MW2 to reality much easier, but it still quite clearly isn't reality.
o i know lol thats not exactly what i mean… its a game and always will be as a mature gamer i know and understand this. Thats why im ok with violence in video games. I have a ahrd time relating them to real life situations because they always go a step further.
lol… actually, my wife gets mad at me if I play MW2 too much, because she feels it isn't healthy for me to play too much of such a realistic game…
lol
And with her having a minor in psych and me having a major, I can't pretend she's wrong or feign ignorance that she is probably wrong… Afterall, we were in some of those classes together! Know how hard it is to argue with "Remember when Dr. Nydham showed us those various studies about yada yada yada blah blah blah" ??
I'll tell you how hard it is… that is generally the moment I resign to either switching games or turning it off. lol
I personally love the realistic nature of these games! its all i ever wanted as a kid was a realistic game. but now that im spoiled with them all i want that fun factor too. Thank goodness for little big planet, and the upcoming modnation racers, to take a step back for a few!
Want to see gore for the sake of gore, watch the Japanese movie Guinea Pig 2. THE sickest thing I've ever seen that wasn't real.
You should try watching all the Faces of Death videos. Those were definitely for the people that rubberneck at accidents and go to Nascar races for the accidents or Hockey games for the fights.
As for your earlier question about the Roman Gladiators. You wouldn't be able to find tickets to those events if they started that back up.
Seen the Faces of Death vidz, an interesting study of real death interspersed with fake yet masquerading as all real. They were disturbing when I believe them to all be real (I was relatively young at the time) but still all that did was feed my imagination and from that I spun some wonderful short stories that still make me a bit of cash from time to time.
For those who are saying, "it's just pixels," that's exactly my point. What happens when we get to the point when the technology completely fools the eye and "pixels" look almost as "real" as REAL.
It doesn't matter if it's fake. It matters how our brain perceives it. That's part of psychology: sadly, our minds are easily tricked and when it comes to this, it can have an impact. It might be subconscious, but it'll be there.
The subconscious aspect of your question is by far the most pressing. There are a LOT of people out there who just aren't set up for that kind of thing, adult or not. However, most of them have demons that will come out due to a more personal environmental trigger (getting fired, divorced, losing a child) instead of a game. On the flip side, a game could add to that building madness the same as movies, books, and music have in the past.
Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 4/15/2010 12:47:48 AM
Ben has me thinking of reading now. It's true, Tim McVeigh and the rest of the survivalist nuts LOVE "The Turner Diaries" and someone WAS killed using a "Hitman's Handbook" but I can't say that any book should be banned because I just don't believe in it. Games should be protected under the first amendment in my opinion. Unfortunately anything that is protected as such has a flip side.
The line is when harm actually gets you. But it won't come out from the TV, unless they do it SO 🙂 that'll be fun.
Those games with such violence should be rated as such and the consumer should be warned before buying them. And plus, violence nowadays is everywhere, movies depict more violent realistic scenes than video games.
3D torture porn could damage some people 🙂
So, because violence is everywhere we should allow more violence into our entertainment?
That's a pretty scary justification.
That's a good point Highlander, you made me revise it and now i believe it is not a reason to have realistic violence in games. However, I am talking about myself here — I personally enjoy violent scenes and gameplay and I consider them as "Action"…it's like a tense strong spice in my dish. Games simulate real life. If i'm playing a war game, I'd want to experience the same thing the soldiers in the battlefield do (except death or torture of course)