This story really got me thinking.
Not so much about the inherent difficulties for gamers when their interactive hobby continues to resemble virtual reality more and more with every passing year. That's what Medal of Honor executive producer Greg Goodrich was talking about, but it led me to the interesting question: can more realistic violence create serious problems? Most will quickly say that violent games have ratings and that movies have been putting horrific stuff on the big screen for decades. But at the same time, we have to acknowledge that gaming is an interactive hobby, and the belief that we're actually "doing something" is more potent with more realism and authenticity. As we continue to advance in this area, might it be dangerous, even for well-adjusted adults? Essentially, if you really think about it, some of the more over-the-top action games could be accurately considered to be "killing simulators" in the not-so-distant future. I'm not in favor of censorship here but I've always been a firm believer that you can always go too far.
Personally, I think I'd start to feel a little uneasy when we get to the point where killing someone really does look too much like killing a real human. Take last year's Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 , for instance: just about everyone I know, Arnold included, felt – at the very least – uneasy during that airport scene. This proves something to me. I just saw it and I didn't really find it enjoyable; in fact, I didn't want to watch any more of it. Looking five, ten, fifteen years down the road, I'm starting to wonder if I'll even be able to play those games that make me feel this way. But perhaps the question is, will it have a marked psychological impact? Gamers often frown at studies but I really think this is one bit of research thought ought to be conducted.
P.S. The pic here is an example of "cartoon-y violence" from Bayonetta . This obviously isn't the type of violence I speak of, but it's a solid picture, no?
Sorry if this is off subject but I was just wondering when the NPD sales figure for the month of March post. I can't wait to see them just because it was a gigantic month for Sony. Again sorry and thanks :p.
Last edited by Dridion on 4/14/2010 9:35:07 PM
I agree completely. You can always go too far and in this case you may be right. I don't want to be tearing somebody's head off with the move controller.
So far it's been good
But the more real things get, the more gruesome it could be. Fine for most genres, except for shooters. Unless they handle it "properly."
I think I would be left feeling fairly disturbed by an ultra-realistic virtual murdering.
When the victim is someone who is obviously a terrible person themselves it makes it easier but if it is without any sense of provocation I think it would be taking it too far to make it feel anything close to real.
I'm not good to ask because I can handle anything, a straight up killing simulator would be like christmas morning for me. I loved the way you could blast heads off in slo-mo in Fallout 3. (Remember how they studied crash victims as research?)
But maybe that says something though, because I'm completely non-violent, and against violence in real life situations unless there is no other option.
Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 4/14/2010 10:01:47 PM
I am right there with you World. I had a blast when I fired up the first Manhunt on PS2. All the different ways you could execute someone was insane. I had no problem separating reality from game though.
I would agree with Ben on his point about gaming 10 or 15 years down the road. If they released a manhunt in 1080P and you were executing someone with ultra realistic graphics, it could do a number to someone whose psyche is already tweaked. It is definitely a fine line and one I am sure will be crossed. Start your psychology class now Ben. We may need you in the near future.
true true.
And yeah there is nothing wrong with it beeing too realistic. You know the point is that you won't be trying to rip your buddies head off outta curiosity since anyway you already know what it looks like thanks to a game 😀 😀 😀 lol
Last edited by VicTheMighty on 4/14/2010 10:17:48 PM
I think there will be a Manhunt 3 and it will rock because I'd love to table saw somebody in graphics akin to Rockstar's best.
The only stuff that bothers me is stuff like Man Hunt and movies like Saw or those torture movies(can't remember the names of them), stuff that's violent for the sake of being violent. No context.
GoW at least has context. Ancient Greece was bloody and brutal. To dumb it down just wouldn't be accurate. Man Hunt creators should be ashamed of them selves.
The MW2 airport scene was kinda weird, but it had context. So i didn't squirm over it.
Manhunt had context. Granted it was vague. You were put into a situation where you were being hunted and had to kill or you would be killed. Not really any different than say 'Hard Target'. The Jean Claude Van Damme movie from the early '90s.
As for Saw, that is definitely violence and gore just for the sake of violence and gore.
Didn't seem to have enough to warranty the amount of violence. Not in the same sense as GoW. Man Hunt isn't really all that different then Saw imo. As far as the amount of context is concerned.
Last edited by Jawknee on 4/14/2010 10:18:12 PM
You are thinking of Hostel, but I have no problem with gore for gore's sake. It's innocent fun, like the Friday the 13th movies I watched as a kid. Haven't killed a real human to date 🙂
Yea but that stuff when we were kids was so over the top and lame that we new it was fake. I don't believe it will make anyone kill anyone, it just seems to take away some of that innocence and desensitizes us.
Last edited by Jawknee on 4/14/2010 11:01:35 PM
If you guys haven't seen untraceable, I would recommend watching it. Not as gory or horror though. About a killer who broadcasts his victims over the internet and the more people that tune in, the faster they die…..really interesting concept.
Would you watch?
The MW2 scene, although i havnt seen it yet, its just a scene from a game.
A scene from a game will NEVER make me uneasy, because no matter how real it is, i will ALWAYS be able to distinguish between reality and virtual reality.
End of story.
Seen it Sven, Diane Lane is a milf.
Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 4/15/2010 2:36:16 PM
Oooooh. Diane Lane…..she is smokin'. Everytime I see her in a movie, I always think of her in Unfaithful. oooooooh…..gotta go now.
I say bring it on… If you can't handle it don't play it. Just as with everything else, can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen. BTW the Jawknee, Manhunt was supposed to disturb you that was the whole point..
That's my point. It was violence for the sake of violence. It's necessary.
You mean unnecessary. But all things that comprise entertainment are necessary for those who are entertained by it. If it has an audience, then what is the trouble?
Making some one laugh or cry or angry with art mediums as a form of entertainment is fine, but if some one is entertained at the idea of murdering or mutilating some one in a highly detailed gratuitous manner for the sake of seeing a bloody shocking mess, that's whats unnecessary and that's what i believe can be troublesome.
I mean really, where do we draw the line?
Last edited by Jawknee on 4/14/2010 11:05:51 PM
I suppose the line is different for everyone. That's why it can't be drawn be those outside ourselves. It SHOULD be drawn for children, but as adults there are far worse things in this world than enjoying a slasher flick, gory game, or what have you.
More people have been maimed or killed in the name of censorship than by the lack of it.
We are free so by all means. Indulge. lol
I don't think anyone should be censored, we just need boundaries. For children…haha
Last edited by Jawknee on 4/14/2010 11:31:42 PM
LV is gonna have a heart attack up in here when he shows up.
I pretty much agree with Jawknee 100%. (Seems we have similar philosophies the more I read his posts)
I also like the direction Ben is taking with his approach to this sort of thing. While I understand things like this aren't going to make people go out and kill people, there is an inherent problem from a psychological point of view if you find yourself desensitized to this sort of content. It would actually be fairly accurate (although shallowly analyzed) to say that if things like MW2's airport scene made you squeemish, you probably have a more-or-less healthy psyche.
As a rule (ignoring the low-percentage of exceptions), humans are wired naturally to rely on other humans and protect one another's way of life. That's why most people, despite their upbringing, have such a problem with death and violence. How often do you hear of soldiers or police needing follow-up counseling after their first kill or extremely violent encounter? Often. Because it isn't natural. In fact, it's natural to raise a child in non-violence, but takes mental breaking points to make or raise them into killers.
The most efficient front line soldiers are desensitized ones, for obvious reasons. I am not indicating that games and movies are going to one day make us all natural killers or make us unmoved by murder, but it is definitely something to seriously mull over, in terms of mental health, if there's any risk for desensitization.
The only thing for me, as a counseling psychologist, that would severely worry me, is that there is plenty of research to support the fact that desensitization can adversely impact any forward progress of an individual (especially youth) that could be at-risk for being suicidal. Obviously, in that case, you are dealing with someone with a very insecure psyche, and interactive violence with extreme realism could easily have a negative impact. That's my only "serious" worry.
Well hey with some luck we will all be super soldiers in a few years 😉 lol
Bring on the simulator I say!!!! You never know when those alien b@st@rds are going to fall on us!!!!! lol XD
"WILL it have a marked psychological impact?"
It already has a marked psychological impact. Youtube taught me that.
I personally think games need to stay games. I'm all for better graphics and sound, but at a certain point, realism just doesn't have a place in games. Especially the "violent" type of realism.
Party pooper lol.
Man I am still waiting for an NHL game where your actual hockey stick is a samurai sword.
But I get your point. And that is why there is a rating on games.
Mature games should not be sold to children and parents need to be responsible.
"Mature games should not be sold to children and parents need to be responsible. "
Yup.
Agreed!
Yes…but are parents BEING parents.
I mean when I hear some of the comments in the forums that somebody just let their 5 yr old play MW2….I shake my head.
How many '5 year olds' are being allowed to play GOWIII because Dad is playing it?
Good question. My answer would be long and wild, but put shortly…
YES! Realism can screw with people, including adults. If it can make you think twice about it, odds are it's left some sort of an impact on you. Is it any worse than a sad ending? Or getting stuck in traffic? I don't know.
Make em more violent. I go to sleep watching horror movies. Guess I am desensitized. As for the No Russian level in COD:MW 2 I thought it was hilarious how everyone was upset by it. Your character kills other virtual people throughout the whole game so what if No Russian was innocent civilians(video game characters LOL) Maybe I am a sociopath or maybe I know its just a game. Good article anyways.
You in the minority.
They're pixels. Bloody pixels don't bother me any more than horror movies do.
P.S. I love horror movies.
And yes, "No Russian" was a slaughter. Just as much of a slaughter as in Dragon Age when I killed all of those elves for the trophy. They were pixels.
I'll ask you all this, if they suddenly legalized the Gladiatorial games from ancient Rome, would the stands not be filled to the brim?
It's like The Running Man and ideas like that. Take criminals or whoever and have them fight… I guarantee you people would watch that. (at least until they got bored)
I let my 2 year old brother have the controller while playing GOW3. I pressed the buttons for him. He had a huge smile on his face when Helios' head came off.
Last edited by LittleBigMidget on 4/14/2010 11:09:17 PM
Pfthahahahah!
Hey wait a sec, why was I downvoted? Was it because I let my baby brother watch a guy's head get pulled off? I don't see the harm done, I mean, hes TWO. I don't think he'll remember it when hes older.
Hey wait a sec, why was I downvoted? Was it because I let my baby brother watch a guy's head get pulled off? I don't see the harm done, I mean, hes TWO. I don't think he'll remember it when hes older.
Hey wait a sec, why was I downvoted? Was it because I let my baby brother watch a guy's head get pulled off? I don't see the harm done, I mean, hes TWO. I don't think he'll remember it when hes older.
Hey wait a sec, why was I downvoted? Was it because I let my baby brother watch a guy's head get pulled off? I don't see the harm done, I mean, hes TWO. I don't think he'll remember it when hes older.
Hey wait a sec, why was I downvoted? Was it because I let my baby brother watch a guy's head get pulled off? I don't see the harm done, I mean, hes TWO. I don't think he'll remember it when hes older.
Hey wait a sec, why was I downvoted? Was it because I let my baby brother watch a guy's head get pulled off? I don't see the harm done, I mean, hes TWO. I don't think he'll remember it when hes older.
Hey wait a sec, why was I downvoted? Was it because I let my baby brother watch a guy's head get pulled off? I don't see the harm done, I mean, hes TWO. I don't think he'll remember it when hes older.
Hey wait a sec, why was I downvoted? Was it because I let my baby brother watch a guy's head get pulled off? I don't see the harm done, I mean, hes TWO. I don't think he'll remember it when hes older.
Hey wait a sec, why was I downvoted? Was it because I let my baby brother watch a guy's head get pulled off? I don't see the harm done, I mean, hes TWO. I don't think he'll remember it when hes older.
Hey wait a sec, why was I downvoted? Was it because I let my baby brother watch a guy's head get pulled off? I don't see the harm done, I mean, hes TWO. I don't think he'll remember it when hes older.
Hey wait a sec, why was I downvoted? Was it because I let my baby brother watch a guy's head get pulled off? I don't see the harm done, I mean, hes TWO. I don't think he'll remember it when hes older.