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Developer: Heavenly Sword Just Didn’t Make Enough Money

The reasons behind making a game multiplatform are obvious, especially these days. With around 73 million total PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 units out there, why limit yourself to only about half?

Eliminating around 50% of the overall sales potential for a product is rarely a good idea, which is exactly what Ninja Theory co-founder Tameem Antoniades told CVG . We know the Heavenly Sword developer is working on Enslaved with Namco Bandai, and they've also got a "top secret project" as well. However, while we're all hoping for a HS sequel, don't expect the mystery title to be exclusive to the PlayStation 3. Said Antoniades:

"It's difficult. Heavenly Sword came out pretty early on the PS3, and we sold, I think, a million and a half copies, and that's still not enough as an independent studio to break even. The publisher potentially breaks even at that point, but the developers don't.

It's just that when so many people have Xbox – I mean over half the market or more has Xbox 360s – why limit yourself to one platform?"

That's about as straightforward of an explanation as one can expect, and we're not about to argue with the logic. As we just said, it makes perfect sense. But there's something…off about his statements, don't you think? When HS launched in 2007, there weren't very many PS3's out there; it would likely be accurate to say there are three times as many now (around 34 million). And if they sold a million and a half with such a low user base installed, would it not be safe to assume they could sell three or four million with a quality sequel? Or even if that's overshooting, what's this about 1.5 million not allowing an independent studio to "break even?" If you make a game that absolutely must sell 2 or 3 million to turn a profit on a system that barely has maybe 7 or 8 million consoles in the world…isn't that, like, really bad business reasoning?

It's more than likely you'll make a lot more money with a multiplatform title. But the reasons stated here arouse some suspicion, I think. And besides, the PS3 exclusives are the elite in the industry today; one would think Ninja Theory would simply want the prestige. Just a thought.

Related Game(s): Heavenly Sword

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Milonakis
Milonakis
14 years ago

Maybe their just messing with 360 owner's heads. It's too bad so many great series are selling out the PS3 exclusives. Final Fantasy, MGS, and now Heavenly Sword. I would say that Sony should try to bribe this studio into an exclusivity agreement but I really didn't like the first Heavenly Sword.

Jawknee
Jawknee
14 years ago

Kojima didn't sell out Metal Gear. They get a Raiden spin off we get a real MGS entry on our PSP. Besides MGS2 was ported to the Xbox. It's almost like Koji just throws MS a bone every few games to get them to shut up and go away.

mackid1993
mackid1993
14 years ago

If you watched the E309 MS press conference,it didn't seem like HIdeo was too happy about the game. His speaking sounded quite forced and the smile looked kind of fake imo. The higher ups at Konami probably wanted a multi platform game.

Jawknee
Jawknee
14 years ago

At this point, I'm more excited for Lords of Shadow then Rising.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
14 years ago

He looked like they had brainwashed him a la The Manchurian Candidate.

ace_boon_coon
ace_boon_coon
14 years ago

i wish sony could just buy kojima productions. can you imagine if MGS4 was multiplat? i almost get sick from the thought.

*runs to the bathroom to throw up*

_______
_______
14 years ago

Its all about the $ now days

godsman
godsman
14 years ago

Yea, many developers back in PS2 days claims they have pride in them when developing exclusively for one platform. It's sad to see the next generation, that their pride is sold and worth only the price of 1.5 million copies of a game.

TEG3SH
TEG3SH
14 years ago

Duuuuuuuhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!?????

OPHIDIAN
OPHIDIAN
14 years ago

It has always been about the cash bro, there was 150 mil ps2's out there, devs didnt need to sell on other consoles.

Although sony's doing well now, it seriously messed up by putting the price so high at the beginning.

Deathb4Dishonor
Deathb4Dishonor
14 years ago

Well i liked the first heavenly sword and i think they accomplished a lot as a developer considering it was their first time working on the ps3… Anyhow, It did sell a lot at the time considering their wasn't a lot of PS3s out there… They'd definitly sell a good 3 million atleast if they were to make a sequel

Hezzron
Hezzron
14 years ago

"Prestige" doesn't put food on the table. Catering to 73 million consoles does.

chedison
chedison
14 years ago

not when the catering is cold and soggy.

ace_boon_coon
ace_boon_coon
14 years ago

exclusives sell more than multiplats with the exception of MW2. so i'm sure their new game won't sell 1.5 together

firesoul453
firesoul453
14 years ago

Making it for both platform will cost like 1.5 as much and if the ps3 version wasn't considered that great then many xbox 360 people will stay away from some cheap port of a ps3 games.
Anyway I was thinking about buying it, but now I probably won't. The fact that it might no longer be exclusive, and it probably didn't sell well for a reason lead me to believe I should ignore any game from Ninja Theory, Ltd.
I hope they know they just lost a sale

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
14 years ago

Yep, their costs will increase, and unless the game appeals to the 360 masses, sales will not double.

johnld
johnld
14 years ago

if they put halo in the title, then it might…no it will draw in the xbox crowd no matter how crappy it is. i just hope ninja theory games dont loose their AAA status. but thats the price they pay for greed by going multiplatform. they just dropped from my must buy list to wait and see list.

spiderboi
spiderboi
14 years ago

*Sigh* there goes the neighborhood of quality… 🙁

Cavan
Cavan
14 years ago

agreed, its very daft that is you need to sell 2 million copies of a game to break even, why bring out a game on a console when theres only 7 or 8 million around, as i actually think 1.5million copies is good going for a game which was almost a launch game.
The interesting thing is tho if they did a heavenly sword 2 exclusive for the ps3, alot of ppl who missed out on the first heavenly sword would pick the game up as its quite cheap now, so not only would they sell 4 or 5 million copies of heavenly sword 2, they would probally sell a few hundred thousand extra of the first game.

Alienange
Alienange
14 years ago

Bingo

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
14 years ago

Just like what happened with Uncharted.

Mornelithe
Mornelithe
14 years ago

I really enjoyed Heavenly Sword, and honestly, I'm glad I bought it. I can almost firmly say, however, that whatever 'top secret' project they have going, if it's not PS3 exclusive, I probably won't be getting. PS3 exclusives and PC games only for me.

Vivi_Gamer
Vivi_Gamer
14 years ago

Really, i got Platinum over here at the UK; which is a high honour.

JackC8
JackC8
14 years ago

Might as well make some generic multiplat thing if you can make more money that way. Thank god everyone doesn't think that way.

karneli lll
karneli lll
14 years ago

They can keep their 9 GB secret project but in their defense;when you see recycled code (like call of duty)selling an insane amount of copies you follow suit. Maybe its just so they can get money to make a good exclusive…you know, like a stripping to pay for college.

Jawknee
Jawknee
14 years ago

"why limit yourself to one platform?"

that's easy, because the Xbox sucks. But what ever. Didn't play Heavenly Sword, probably won't so more power to them…I guess.

Mornelithe
Mornelithe
14 years ago

It may be lesser in areas than the PS3, but it has it's abilities that the PS3 does not. In my experience, it's simply a matter of Exclusive titles perform better on their respective console.

Jawknee
Jawknee
14 years ago

I do agree with you but when we compare the exclusives, most PS3 exclusives make MS's look like multiplats. Most MS exclusives people throw praise on are games made with Unreal and can be done on the PS3 but not the other way around. I bought my 360 and after 2 months I couldn't stop asking myself why. Good thing it RROD before my library grew to big. not that it really would have anyway when the only exclusives are Halo, Gears, and Mass Effect, which are all essentially the same game anyways. Martian Shooters.

Hitch
Hitch
14 years ago

Remember everyone this is jawknee speaking. (Fanboy)

Orvisman
Orvisman
14 years ago

For those who haven't played Heavenly Sword, play it now. It is an excellent game.

And for the last time, Heavenly Sword 2, if it ever comes, will not be multiplat because Sony owns the title. Ninja Theory was a second-party (a hired gun) developer for that title.

johnld
johnld
14 years ago

then does that mean that sony santa monica can make heavenly sword 2. if so, good riddence ninja theory, you greedy bastards.

Orvisman
Orvisman
14 years ago

Yes.

Alienange
Alienange
14 years ago

I told you Antoniades lost his mind!

"why limit yourself to one platform?"

Blu Ray. That's why.

To look at 73 million consoles sold and start drooling over the potential profits is childish. You can't look at the total number of consoles sold. You have to look at the number of households that have gamers. Those are your customers. It's a much lower number. A lot of gamers, if not the majority, have both HD consoles or have bought both at some point.

Anyways, I think this guy's lost it and I'm not buying what he's selling.

Jawknee
Jawknee
14 years ago

For Antoniades dollars trumph blue ray


Last edited by Jawknee on 3/29/2010 12:16:50 PM

Alienange
Alienange
14 years ago

If his epic HS game "only sold 1.5 million," how many does he think his gimped multiplat will sell?

Jawknee
Jawknee
14 years ago

at least 1.5 million. ha


Last edited by Jawknee on 3/29/2010 12:29:35 PM

johnld
johnld
14 years ago

this reaching out to more users point for profit kindda seems stupid to me, well not really i guess.. profit. then instead of going to 360 also, why not go the wii route too. if they're really after profit then just crank out a bunch of wii games since they apparently dont want to make the best game that they can.

Alienange
Alienange
14 years ago

Another good point johnld. The people who are out there for profits are in fact pumping out Wii games. I don't know if it's working for them, but they're trying. Antoniades' reasoning is faulty on many levels.

Kai200X
Kai200X
14 years ago

Never finish Heavenly Sword, and I'm not particularly looking forward to any of their future games.

Ergi
Ergi
14 years ago

The reason you limit yourself to one console is because you want to create a title that is of the best quality possible. The question is, would you rather make a title that goes down as epic or would you rather make a title that sells allot. I know what Kojima would choose and has chosen.

Kowhoho
Kowhoho
14 years ago

You make it seem like those things are mutually exclusive…

Ergi
Ergi
14 years ago

Yeah that's true, i do make it seem like that. Sometimes quality and profit are mutually exclusive,thank god they haven't been lately (e.g. Heavy Rain). However in my opinion, if trying to get more sales means going multiplatform then the quality is in jeopardy. Granted, i don't want to make it seem like it's a rule and always the case, there are great multiplats out there but exclusives on either console have a higher chance of being epic.


Last edited by Ergi on 3/29/2010 3:34:11 PM

BTNwarrior
BTNwarrior
14 years ago

well I was interested in buying this game but for some reason it still costs $40

johnld
johnld
14 years ago

they hollywood video near my house is closing down and they still have new copies of heavenly sword at 40 bucks. but as they get ready to close, they're discounting them. right now i think its 30% but i still wont bite. if it goes to 20 then i'll get it. anything above that is just too high of a price for a game that came out that early in the ps3 cycle, not to mention i already beaten it and just want it in my collection and not really play it.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
14 years ago

That's why I waited so long too, but I decided I wanted it and just put it on my xmas list, problem solved.

CH1N00K
CH1N00K
14 years ago

I'm in the same boat. I've always wanted to pick it up but felt it was far to short of a game without much replay value for me to justify paying full price for it. I've been waiting for it to come down in price or go greatest hits, but even the used copies at EB Games are still selling for close to top dollar.

I know the game was good, but I've bought better, newer games for way less then what they are still asking for Heavenly Sword. (Not used versions either)

Slash the price in half, and sell a million or more copies and make a new one for the PS3 that now has a much larger group of users.

grayfox2k8
grayfox2k8
14 years ago

Sounds more like bad management to me. 1.4 million should be enough. He is lying somewhere.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
14 years ago

1.5 million x average retail of $50 = $75 million. How much of that ends up with the developer? How much with the publisher, and how much with the retailer?

If a game takes $25 million to develop, the developer needs a minimum of $25 million simply to pay for the development. To show a profit, pay bonuses for good work, and attract the best talent, you really need the developer to be getting 20% or more over and above the actual dev costs. Remember that the publisher is paying for all the manufacture, distribution and marketing of the game, so they'll want a decent number of millions from the game just to break even as well.

If the game was expensive to develop, 1.5 million copies isn't enough. But then again, games that have cost far less than a million to develop have sold millions of copies through PSN. I think that Ninja Theory, and other developers need to carefully consider how much time, effort and money to throw at a game. By all means make a great game, but don't bankrupt yourselves doing it.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
14 years ago

I don't see the logic here.

Here's what I'm hearing from Ninja Theory.

"Well, we sold 1.5 million units into a tiny market, and 1.5 million wasn't enough to break even. Because of this we don't think that exclusivity to one platform works and are considering multi-platform."

Yeah, we get that there are a lot of Xbox360s in the US, but you know, globally, it's a wash, anyone who says otherwise simply isn't paying any attention to reality. In fact Globally, the PS3 is pulling away from the 360, but the 'dead weight' of the American 360 market is slowing the pace at which the PS3 can dominate But, hey, who's looking at reality these days?

No, but seriously, we get that when Heavenly Sword came out there were comparatively few PS3s. Actually, the installed base now is something like 6 times what it was when Heavenly Sword launched. Seems like the PS3 in it's own right is now a 6 times bigger market place, and while a developer might not sell 6×1.5 million copies of a game, the odds are that if the game is 'that good' it will sell past 3 million and probably past 4 million too.

Now, that sounds like it would make exclusivity a viable thing – even for an independent studio. Sure bringing in a second team to work on 360 and making a multi-platform game potentially doubles the market. However what is the market for the genre of game? Is is dominated by 360 or PS type gamers? How many compromises in the quality, scope and performance of the game have to be made because it's multi-platform?

At the end of the day I see the financial arguments, as well as the technical ones, and to be honest I think it's pretty much a wash in the sense that bringing in an additional team for the 360 version of a game, along with any compromises on the way, potentially doubles the development cost, and potentially costs some sales due to missed opportunities. Perhaps in pure sales numbers of $$, the numbers look good, but when broken down to actual profit, and when considering the quality of the product, I don't believe that multi-platform is the best choice for a smaller developer. If a studio is big enough that it can absorb some of the additional costs within the existing team, then multi-platform is an easy choice.

Ninja Theory sounds like they are trying to justify going multi-platform, perhaps they already regret the move? It's not like they are the biggest game studio on the block after all.

Alienange
Alienange
14 years ago

Hmmm… Interesting, I'm starting to believe NT is going to be losing customers because of their talking too much rather than gain them by going multiplat.

If they'd just stay quiet and release HS2 as a blockbuster PS3 exclusive they'd make their millions.

Seems to me that they've bit off more than they can chew and are now barking to make up for it.