Ben-DutkaAs of now, we all know it's Sony's PlayStation Move vs. Microsoft's Natal. But did you realize things could've been very different…?
First things first: you should listen to the podcast of the recent Engadget Show ; you'll learn a lot more about the future and potential of Move, and how the technology came into existence. But if you'd simply rather read a brief summary about it, we've got you covered. It seems that 3DV Systems, the company behind Natal, first approached both Sony and Nintendo with their motion control idea, and in this show, Dr. Richard Marks explains why Sony passed:
"We tried a lot of different 3D cameras. I love the 3D camera technology; personally, I like the technology part of it. We worked closely with our game teams at what it would enable, and it enabled making the things we already did with EyeToy more robust. But it didn’t really enable as many new experiences as what we were hoping it would, so it made the things we were already able to do a little bit more robust — which is good — but it added a lot of cost and it didn’t enable some of the other experiences we wanted to achieve."
Marks goes on to talk about why they chose to use those colored tracking balls for Move (it's about helping to control the light conditions, which Natal can't do), but it's most interesting to learn about the early days of motion sensing research for Sony. As for Natal, Microsoft says they've improved the software, despite the fact that the original co-processor in the system had to be removed due to potentially high costs. It'll be Natal vs. Move out of the gate but Sony could very easily have gone with Natal, and that's something worth talking about. Important business decisions are always entertaining.
@DemonNeno
You do realize that the Natal camera has no processing capability? It was removed because it was too expensive, so now the 360 has to handle all of the processing load.
I get the feeling that you want to dismiss everything that Sony accomplished with first the EyeToy and then the PSEye. The PSEye is an upgraded version of the Eyetoy, better lens, better sensor. Anyone who has played games with an Eyetoy or PSEye knows what the pros and cons of controller-less play are.
Your most humorous statement is this "Sony is learning from the people who played their cards best and those people happen to work at Nintendo". Sorry, no, you are wrong. Sony has worked on motion capture technology with video games for more than a decade. They have had products available for a decade. Sony had motion controlled fitness games on the PS2 – years before the Wii arrived. Sony is not living off other's technology. Sony develops it's own technology.
Natal differs from the Eyetoy and PSEye in one respect and one respect only, it uses more than one camera to track in three dimensions. Other than that, it's identical in every way. In fact the PS3 uses an array of microphones in the PSEye to allow it to track the player's position with additional accuracy if the developer desires to use the functionality.
I honestly wish people would learn something about the technology and history before they leap into this discussion.
Comparing a cell phone camera to a Cannon Rebel!? ROTFLMAO! Oh, that's a good one. So we're to believe that the PSEye is the equivalent of a single chip $10 camera embedded in a cell phone and Natal is the $600 digital SLR? Yeah, right. Pull the other one, it's got bells on it.
Last edited by TheHighlander on 3/29/2010 9:41:50 PM
Odd, I was actually agreeing with what you had to say.
First and foremost, I do realize that Natal lost its processor, hence why I said:
"Microsoft lost on the big end. After all their crap they gave Sony for the PS3s' price at first, they go ahead and grab tech that needs it's own processor for rendering accurate and quick motion senses and chuck out the chip and "tweak" what's left. So they're at the Wii with higher resolutions and no remote. "
My statement about the Cellphone Camera compared to an DSLR referred to the EyeToy compared to teh Moves' capabilities. Nothing about a Natal in that sentence whatsoever.
You've also overlooked what I've said about Sony & Nintendo, most importantly having a Controller incorperated in their Move. Eyetoy nor PSEye incorperated controllers. Wii did and Sony has even stated that their move was to appeal to Wii fans for their shift to the next gen of motion controlled gaming. Sony has congratulated Nintendo for their efforts. Be a good fanboy and let your guard down for a second, won't you?
I don't know where you were, but the Wii single handedly DOMINATED sales for YEARS. Now do I own a Wii? Nope. Xbox? Nope. Ps3? Yep. That doesn't hinder my ability to realize when integrated hardware/software are successful and shift the direction gaming will take on for years to come.
Before you get all fussy and start your little lecture about what it is you hate about people joining in conversations, READ WHAT PEOPLE SAY BEFORE YOU CRITIZE THEM.
I'll write in Braille next time.
Nice posr Highlander!
And not to forget, that according to one of the PS Eye commercials, it also has "voice recognition" capability too.
I doubt the MS's little pre-natal arm-flailing bundle of poop will be able to change all those "Depends".
But I digress,….becaue I do know of one area where Natel will do 100% better with than Sony,
….easily getting all those "Chester, The Molester's" to flock around with Milo's butt.
did anyone see Natal in Smallville a while back? It looks moronic. Dancing around like a fool trying to swat a ball.
Ya I presumed MS paid off someone at Smallville for that…. being the product isn't even available yet.
wow… that really says a lot about natal… 3DV approached sony and nintendo first and both passed due to it not being innovative enough…
yet, here's microsnot preaching to the world how innovative it is… yea, it's innovative for microsnot-based products but, barely worth the trouble with other well-established companies that are already using similar technology…
i can just hear 3DV in the board room meeting: "well, sony and nintendo both turned us down… i guess we're down to our last option… give microsft a call, and see if they're interested"… "they are?!?! OMG we're saved!!"…
that article should be plastered all over every single gaming news website… the world needs to know that both sony and nintendo passed on it due to it not being innovative enough…
Last edited by bOnEs on 3/29/2010 1:37:35 PM
My problem with Natal is the amount of games it can support. Most of the 360's important games are shooters, but how can you play a shooter without a controller? Natal will be great for arcade games, but it doesn't go much further than that. However, the Move can be used for almost all PS3 games. My question to Microsoft is this, why put out technology that will appeal to only a small portion of your customers?
That's the funny thing. MS says you will still use the controller. So what does Natal add to the experience? Want to bet how long it takes for hardcore shooter fans to ignore Natal and clean the clocks of those trying to use it. Want to be how long it takes those getting their clocks cleaned to figure that out and switch off Natal?
Oh really? So let's imagine playing Halo, no MW2-a fast paced game; one second we are using our hands to knife someone then another second, we immediately pick up the controller to shoot the guy shooting at you. I am sure a lot of people are going to enjoy doing that (sarcasm).
With a plastic knife, or a stick!
A stick! A stick!
*sluuuuurrrrpppppp
Sony should have bought the company and killed it. Leaving MS with nothing.
I plan on getting this for my daughter since I talked her out of getting a Wii some time ago. Glad to hear that Sony is putting a lot of effort into this.
Beth, what can I do?
I still want to know how you run around a battle field in a game like Halo w/o a controller.
How would you pull of a move like in DMC4 where you jump, dash in mid air, and then extend your arm to teach a special item?
MS hasn't bothered those addressing issues yet.
At least now with the move extra controller, I see how you can do those things with the PS3 motion controls.
They can't Natal will be reduced to a peripheral that only works with certain crappy games.
So, this is just further proof that Microsoft only takes old things that have already been done, eat them, crap them out, repackage them, and sell them as advanced new tech.
Interesting to know.
I still expect the Natal to sell alot of units though.
There is a TON of 3rd graders.
Pew!! Pew!! Pew!!
Last edited by maxpontiac on 3/29/2010 3:27:28 PM
ease up y'all cant believe no one got that it was sarcastic . A BROOM , A BROOM FOR CRYING OUT LOUD .geez
Seems Xbox 360 are ready to welcome anything at their offices, I'm thinking about showing them a controller that can be eaten when a particular game boss pisses you off, instead of smashing and damaging it. Kinda like a controller made of flour and sugar,pretty sure they'll like it, unlike Sony 😛
Now serving in vanilla and chocolate
and the buttons will be made of skittles
I prefer strawberry 🙂
Have fun with our sloppy seconds, microsuck fanboys!
Natal is the worst idea ever. Do physical activity while playing a game defeats the purchase. Move is a better choice, but then again, I don't want a magician wond, I want to hold my controller and be a gamer.
"You ever wonder what the bottom of an Avatar's shoe looks like? Well, BAM. There it is…"
*Avatar dislocates himself in 5 places*
_________________________________
Did anyone watch that E3 Natal demonstration clip? I'm sure you have, but if not then search up E3FAIL on Youtube.
Pissed on my friend's Xbox 🙂
Natal has been a disappointment to most people who are actually gamers that have tried it.
Natal will go the way of the RIDE board, I expect Microsoft's sales to be initially quite good though as they will be pushing it like crazy. It is a flawed device for real world usage though.
@Imagi,
"It is MS's next big flawed device for real world usage though.
I fixed it for you, LMFAO
Man…People on here really love to bash MS.
I'll start and say I'm no expert on these new technologies, so I could easily be wrong in anything I'm about to say. I've mostly just watched them in action on sites that show previews. Honestly, both techs look great (dare I say "amazing"?), and they both have tons to offer. But really, aren't they using very closely related technologies (this being a camera). With the exception of the wands for Move, they both use a camera (and I don't really care who did what first on what console and who improves on who because that's all just stupid to argue about).
So wouldn't the REAL praise go into the software that each company will implement into these cameras? So if it's all about the software and how it reads the video footage it is taking, couldn't Microsoft EASILY have all types of games. They should be able to update this software so that it recognizes an accessory (like the Move does with wands), and eventually do what Move does? The same would be for Sony if they wanted to have their camera have facial recognition, and whatever else Natal will do.
I still don't understand why people are going crazy about Natal not being FPS friendly. If my guess about accessories (which is one way that these types of companies make oogogs of money) is correct, they will probably have gun accessories with buttons, just like move and wiimotes. And if they don't, who freakin' cares? Natal isn't replacing controllers or your system. You can still play Halo without it.
Natal is trying to do something new. The camera may not be a new thing to some, but what they are wanting to use it for is to create games that are different than what you find on a Wii, Ps3, or current XBox360. Watching the preview for Milo is what makes this the most evident, and brings me back to it being about the software. IF they can create situations like this with Milo (and I know it was kind of scripted, I'm talking about improving this to be a little more lenient), and make it GOOD, then this is where the revolutionary aspect comes in. Don't bring up the stupid dodgeball game.
I'm excited to try both and see how they do. Move does look more reliable at the moment and I hope MS doesn't release Natal before it's truly ready. Sorry for the long post.
if the shoe fits.
Bash Microsoft? Nothing of the sort. However if you bring out a motion controller, call it revolutionary technology, claim all sorts of things that it can do that the competition can't. Then you *have* to back it up. What then when the competition clears it's throat and points to a decade old product that can accomplish 90% of the claimed functionality of the new revolutionary device? Pointing out facts is not bashing. Are you perhaps being a tad defensive?
I'll say it again, the Emperor is naked, he has no new clothes.
saying eyetoy could do 90% of natals functions is just stupid.
its like saying the petrol engine is useless since the steam engine was just fine.
seriously eye toy was so freaking laggy its no surprise sony left it to gather dust.
if it was so successful why did they drop software support?
natal has a massive advantage over move because you can have multiple people playing the one game, move can only support 4 main controllers or 2 main and 2 sub.
and natal can give you the full immersive experience.
how is move going to handle kick boxing?
sony and nintendo are just but hurt, they had the chance to use the tech but gave it the blind eye because it was to risky and expensive.
now there paying the price for not taking a leap of faith.
Yup, although I don't have any hate towards the 360, I'll bash MS while I'm still breathing, every single chance I get!!!!
IMO, MS is nothing more than just a greedy scumbag company that would rather bring out faulty goods than to give us a good worthwhile product to begin with.
Not to mention, all the cash they're always throwing at developers to screw over their competitors instead of just "letting their actions speak louder than words" in a good way, just by making more of their own products and/or 1st party games.
Also some years back, a few MS minions were caught were caught "Astroturf" competitor's sites, by either trying to talk up MS, or by trying to deflate the competitor's site. And after being caught, they even admitted that MS paid them to do so.
MS means to take over the world, but not if I have anything to say about it, and it's not going to happen on my watch!!!!!
its quite obvious why sony did not take up the tech.
the tech at the time was extremely expensive and sony dont have enough cash to through away at a product that may or may not pay off.
M$ have been playing around with it quite a bit,rumors have it they took out 2 processing chips to make it cheaper.
if you have tech thats up and running and is lower cost why would you jump at expensive cost which is still in the experimental stage?
what sony are doing with move is no where near as complex as what M$ are doing with natal, sony have very few issues they could run into with move, m$ on the other hand could be into nightmares if there unlucky and get it wrong.
and you know how the saying goes.
"never get a software company to do hardware, and never get a hardware company to do software."
if you do you end up with hardware thats unreliable like the 360s RROD, and you end up with sonys OS that has half the features but still manages to use allot more system resources.
@_______
Just an FYI here, my comment wasn't directed towards you, it was a reply to TOOmuchRazMataz.
But somehow your other comment wedged itself in-between our two posts
"they took out 2 processing chips to make it cheaper."
So the work has to now be done by the CPU in the console. It limits the types of games that can be created. Natal is not going to be able to be used with more elaborate games as a result.
Natal's CPU overhead is going to result in casual, simple games being created for it.
Last edited by Mr Bitey on 3/30/2010 12:23:06 PM
i dunno thats why i said it was a rumor, but no natal will have a CPU even if 2 chips were removed that does not mean the 360 will have to do natals dirty work.
that would be a massive stupid mistake by M$ the system is struggling as it is, taking away some of that for motion gaming would just be stupid!
I like how the wii caused a lot of accidents, broken tvs p, windows and wrists. Now how many people are going to get hurt with move and natal? I can see the stories now- dad hits kid in the face playing playstation move.
I think Natal is going to be extremely limited as to the games it can cater to. Since Natal puts such a strain on the CPU, don't expect too many hard core games. It's probably only going to end up being able to be used with casual shovelware types of games.
Move on the other hand has a lot less overhead. So there seems to be a lot more potential for great, worthwhile games.
I don't really care about this to be honest. I mean its great that Sony is actually trying to evolve the technology with Move (unlike good old "BAM! There it is!" Natal), but unless they release any good games for it I won't really care.
And the sad thing is that Natal is going to get a whole lot more sales than Move will because of Microsoft's marketing machine, but I guess that's something we've all come to expect from M$ (good sales, mostly mediocre quality products).
I wasn't being defensive, although I do own a 360 along with PS3. I was just pointing out that other things seem like they could be possible with Natal through accessories and updates that people might overlook because they think of the ridiculous dodgeball game and think, wow, that is lame to the max.
Something to note: The point of all companies is to be greedy scumbags. They are out to make money any possible way they can, Sony is included, and is probably just as dirty as MS. If going to websites and downtalking other companies gets you angry, just look at Sony's current NATIONAL TELEVISION COMMERCIALS. Pew pew pew? or swinging your wrist around frantically. Those are direct stabs at Natal and Wii.
___________ is right. Move was a very safe…move…sigh…for Sony to make. MS is going someplace that, even though the EyeToy existed (but really, how many people really heard about that thing before all this? and if you did, who bought one? I mean, come on), is still a much more advanced take on it. Not promising it will work out great, or they will have amazing games at launch, but they are looking to reinvent gaming the way Sony probably wished the EyeToy would have.