Ben-DutkaIt's always interesting to hear how the creators respond to the critics in any entertainment medium.
As for one of the most popular and respected game makers, David Jaffe says he's not on the same wavelength with some reviewers these days. According to CVG citing an OPM UK interview with Jaffe, the original God of War creator said he just doesn't "connect" with review scores, and would rather rely on fan feedback. Basically, he believes critics are "going out of their way to praise the artistic for its own sake at the expense of video games," which is understandable; we say this is akin to reviewers who will automatically say a game is great for being original. In the end, Jaffe says that right now, reviews just don't "matter as much" to him anymore, although we should probably add that 9+ games tend to sell very, very well. Any honest critic will tell you they're not always 100% checked out on every game they review; perhaps it isn't their favorite genre, or maybe they're just not gelling with the game's premise or concept. All we can do is explain the game's positive and negative qualities, the impact it made on us (or lack thereof) and whether or not a consumer should consider a purchase. Lest we forget, that's our job.
Sadly, many "critics" simply apply arbitrary review scores for the sake of attention, which is starting to happen more and more often. In this way, we completely understand Jaffe's stance. However, the idea of listening to fan feedback online…well, haven't we all read the user reviews at certain websites? Most of the time, I feel as if I've lost precious brain cells after reading some of them. But anyway, we're just waiting to see if Jaffe and Eat Sleep Play will ever announce that new Twisted Metal game they're supposedly working on.
i want a tm announcement now.
Soon bitch! lol.
rofl
If you go to the right place, review scores are a good thing. PSXextreme along with Metacritic are excellent places to see the pros and cons of a game, along with helping you make a decision as to whether it's worth your money.
In a way, we need both review scores and fan feedback for video games to truly shine in the future.
However, this generation of games are shining brighter then ever. Only the Wii seems to have shovelware or the majority of B grade games. While not all games are great on PS3, the number of difinitive titles that push the bar even higher for other dveleopers is staggering in this generation!!! Look at the push for graphics, art direction, sound quality, massive amounts of content, etc.
I believe MGS, Team ICO, Epic, Bioware, Nintendo and Naughty Dog are to be thanked for a lot of this. Games have come a long way since the early days of Space Invaders and Pac-Man.
Well since Jaffe already announced TM somewhat inadvertently those of you who want it shouldn't worry much.
I agree with him in that whenever you look at a site that has both a regular review and a cumulative user review, I am always more in line with the user reviews. The only problem with that is that you get fanboys voting down awesome games, but it tends to even out.
Jaffe should just read PSXE for his reviews and he would be fine. Most critics these days really do make me sick though, rarely do I see one that even has any business reviewing video games because while they are charged with applying a technical score, all they do is offer a poorly biased opinion.
I like having reviews to read. Although some critics act like their job is a game, most people want a serious critique and that's what we have PSXExtreme for.
"Critics are going out of their way to praise the artistic for its own sake at the expense of video games".
It sounds like he thinks some artsy-fartsy "games" are getting scored too high, that some elite reviewers are just coming off as desperate for "the next big thing".
Dare I say this sounds like a shot at Heavy Rain?
Could be. Hard to say with him though, he could be referring to graphics in general but who knows.
Yeah, I don't see Jaffe as a guy who would like Heavy Rain.
Yeah, I see Jaffe as a guy who's a Heavy drinker.
Last edited by leatherface on 2/27/2010 12:03:09 AM
"Heavy Booze"
Probably true Hezzron73. Beats me why a reviewer would even care about "the next big thing" but I suppose there are some sensationalists out there.
Jaffe: Reviews "Don't Matter As Much To Me, Anymore"
Of course, they won't, when you're not making any games, anymore 😉
Jk. I think we know that Jaffe can have appreciation for the artistic, like when he says that, "Gears 2 was a better game, but MGS4 was the better 'experience'". It's just that sometimes he gets blown away by how big games have become as production efforts this generation, and coming off the heels of the likes of GOW2, to going to making smaller scale efforts such as psn downloadables (Calling All Cars), the disparity is even more daunting for him personally as a game designer/producer, because he went from making large scale game, with large teams and so forth of last generation, back to small team size efforts, when the normal trend in the industry is everything getting larger. I remember him talking about how intimidating GOWIII was turning out, saying it is like an oil painting, and how it made him nervous.
Truth is, I'm sure even the great Shigeru Miyamoto would be relieved by positive critic reception. Who wouldn't? But, Jaffe shouldn't be worrying too much about negative reception, or not making the same splash as before. He should just focus on his obvious love of designing games (which obviously he's first-rate at and known for). If he makes them, they will come.
Last edited by Shams on 2/27/2010 7:57:36 AM
One problem with your comment shams, Gears 2 wasn't better than MGS4 in any way, shape, or form. Not to mention Gears 2's story was stupid as hell, somehow they thought sinking their own city was going to help them when the locust were going to do the exact same thing anyway.
Edit: Oh, wait, I didn't see the quotations, so I suppose that's a problem with Jaffe's philosophy, not yours.
Last edited by carl0975 on 2/28/2010 11:16:21 AM
IGN
Gamespot
^Garbage sites
You forgot Destructoid.
At least GameSpot and IGN try occasionally.
Destructoid can piss off. Playb3yond
Gametrailers Also,But Destructiod is by far the worst kind of Shit out there.
I like IGN, they aren't perfect, but at least they finish the game before reviewing it. I think that is important.
I think reviews are great but I could do without review scores easily.
all due respect david but thats just stupid.
allot of developers change and completley destroy their games just because of what reviers said about their game.
prime example being assassins creed.
reviews and some customers bitched till they were blue in the face about assassins creeds long cut scenes after you kill a enemy.
they were the best part of the game, they told half the freaking storyline!
there important.
so what did ubisoft do?
they said fine you dont like them?
there gone for AC2.
same with F.E.A.R reviewers and customers bitched that it was too claustrophobic and always in doors.
so they removed it for F.E.A.R 2 and that completely destroyed the game.
you cant have a open level in a horror game.
how are you suppose to be scared of things if your in a large area and can just run away from them?
Good post.
And dead space 2 is supposed to have multiplayer and be more action horror than survival horror which will most likely ruin the game.
and that is the reason why i wont be buying dead space 2.
I'm sure Jaffe isn't the only one who feels this way. I'm thinking quite a few devs prefer getting feedback from the fans than reading some obscure review. Let's give them what they want. When was the last time you sent an email to the devs of your favorite games?
Although hi-profile critics are often swayed by vested interest in this or that, but as Ben mentioned, there isn't much to get from the average customer's feedback, other than, say, "this brings teh sucks, lol", or "I rulezzz", for example. So, they would still have to sift through the garbage, to find some trend of anything remotely resembling human, valid thoughts, which leaves the job of deciding what the customer really wants once again on the shoulders of the studios.
I would think that job of trash-sifting would be much easier going through professionally written feedback as provided by the critics, even if it is a bit swayed by this or that.
I don't know, considering my favorite games were made before email.
I'm also starting to feel like Jaffe, critics can't always be right.
Last edited by www on 2/27/2010 3:38:48 AM
There is no right or wrong. It's just an opinion though it's supposed to be one that comes from an experienced gamer that can evaluate games accurately for the value they possess.
I've seen IGN give a 6.8 to DW6: Empires which happened to be the first one I enjoyed an extreme amount sine DW3.
I've also seen many critics give GTA IV high scores when I think its completely overrated.
None of us are right or wrong.
"None of us are right or wrong."
Exactly. To me the critics were RIGHT with the high scores for games like GTAIV, Uncharted 2, MW2, Bioshock and they were WRONG with high scores for SFIV, Halo 3 and again they were WRONG with the low scores for Uncharted Drake's Fortune, Tekken 6.
Guy, maybe, you just didn't give GTA4 a chance :p
And he'd be right to some extent (dont like his take on the more arthouse)
Critics have been a complete let down in all industries as of late and today, i refuse to listen (some exceptions of course).
In the games industry, the WKC fiasco was the final straw. Now that i finally have it and have clocked in 21hrs so far, i can easily say its one of the most satisfying RPGs i have played in years. Probably since DQVlll.
Its almost like it came from the jrpg golden era, the music takes me back to classic FFs, the adventuring is absolutely wonderful, the battling is actually one of few active time battle systems i completely enjoy, especially as its turn based, the story is that of the golden era, the side quests are gigantic and challenging!
It also has those unique, japanese creative touches like the Oasis beauty lmao! Took me right back to yesterday years 🙁
Of course it ain't perfect but, its the ONLY rpg ive played this gen that has gave me that classic rpg feel….
Would the reviews tell me that? No, and it was the final straw for me.
Anyway, back to the modern day classic.
Last edited by Lotusflow3r on 2/27/2010 6:19:19 AM
I like the reviews here – I may not always agree with them, but at least I feel like I got someone's honest opinion. Other sites give me the impression that they have meetings to discuss what score a game should get, and there are all sorts of factors taken into account that have nothing to do with the quality of the game – like how many fanboys a franchise has and how angry they'll be if the score isn't high enough.
I agree
Reminds me of Famitsu and how they score games.
They have like 3 or 4 dumbasses who each give their own scores for said game and then based on those 3 or 4 scores they tally up the total. And most likely they all give the same score (8, 8, 8, and a 7).
^Just like you say, they probably get together and go "how much hype/fans does this game have?" Eeeeh….let's all give it some 7s and 8s.
This is DEFINITELY how Gamespot is, with some exceptions. IGN is the biggest culprit.
And Destructgarbage (site is known to be garbage) I really don't mention them since I don't even consider them a legit gaming site.
PS: Balthier's the man! (best FF ♂ character)
Last edited by Scarecrow on 2/27/2010 12:09:29 PM
Scores in general have gotten to high. I think everyone should reset it and the past scores don't mater. Thats the problem, "if mario 64 got a 10, well every new mario has to get a 10". I don't like this logic.
You hit it right on the nose, I really can't stand how Destructiod is considered a gaming site to some. They Suck!
I see some folks are still stubbornly clinging to the fantasy that a review is anything more than just one person's OPINION.
On the new Twisted Metal game, I read articles about Jaffe getting heckled at the AIAS awards when he was on stage. The heckler kept asking about a new Twisted Metal game, and here was Jaffe's response:
9:51] A heavily intoxicated–and well-known–member of the audience bellows out, "TWISTED METAL!" at the top of his lungs at David Jaffe, in reference to his classic car combat game. Jaffe has been long-rumored to be working on a sequel for the PlayStation 3.
[9:52] Now it's time for the Outstanding Achievement in Game Direction trophy. A montage of Assassin's Creed II, Batman: Arkham Asylum, Brutal Legend, Flower, Uncharted 2: Among Thieves.
[9:54] "TWISTED METAL!!!!" is screamed again. Jaffe stares at the audience member and hollers back, "Soon, b****!" and mutters something about "eight or nine months." Is that an announcement?
no thats not an announcement.
he probably just said that to shut him up.
for example, giving WKC at 5. or 6. something score is purely irresponsible. nothing more to be said on this
I have few sites I go to this one, Gamepro and Gamespot(mostly for what's coming on for the PS3 and walkthroughs) But when I do read game reviews I prefer coming here to see what the guys have to say. They go into what's right and wrong with the game while other places try to be cute with lame jokes or really stupid pop culture references(cough X-Play).
I in a small way agree with Jaffe. I miss the days, when renting games was relatively cheap and you would walk in and try games that you may have heard about pre release (before final reviews) and see for yourself what was good for YOU.
I too look at other sites to see whats coming out but enjoy the reviews that get posted here. Classic Game Room HD has a very interesting take on games too.
I feel like a lot of people base their bottom line decisions on reviews. Taking them into consideration is never a bad thing, but the power of suggestion is strong and many games that I have enjoyed thoroughly got not so great reviews and some that ive hated have gotten stellar reviews.
Perhaps it is harder these days to ignore reviews, especially with the cost of games going up and the economy not doing so great.
Indeed sir.
When it comes to new releases, it seems there are to many reviews that offer expert opinions, highlighting every fault, and falling right in line when it comes to hype train.
Several reviewers I have read in the past seem to forget the genre this represents, and the fanbase it will attract. For example, reading a review on the flight game, when the reviewer does not have the necessary experience, or apprecitaion of the type.
I believe Jaffe is correct to a degree. Game development studios should listen to people like me due to my ability to impact them with my money.
Microsoft knows all to well with me. And thanks to their 360 woes, and they way I was treated, Sony now gets every dollar I spend on gaming. Yes, I understand that I am only one person, but considering the sphere of influence I have with family members and their gaming, Microsoft has lost an entire family's worth of game purchases. Not just mine, but my In-law's, my brother's, and others relatives as well.
In my opinion, that impacts the industry much more then a reviewer's individual take on a game and why he rewarded it 7.0 instead 9.0..
Last edited by maxpontiac on 2/28/2010 7:04:32 PM
From what i've seen i'm not even sure that ign reviewers play the games they review anymore. I think they are just handed a game by their boss and told this game gets a good score or this game gets a bad score. Then they look around for some positive or negative things that other ppl have said, put it in their own words and call it a day, happy that they got paid.
I've seen them too many times give great scores to games that were just terrible, and give bad scores to games that were awesome.
White knight chronicles is a prime example. Ign should bow before the awesomeness of psx.
Destructoid- " ….Deadly Premonition is blatantly better Heavy Rain…."
"Yesterday we reviewed Deadly Premonition and gave it a score of 10. This comes just weeks after we reviewed Heavy Rain and gave it a score of 7. Obviously, this means one thing. We love the Xbox 360 and want to have sex with it. This conclusion can be drawn thanks to logic, which is a thing the Internet uses to make decisions based on ideas a thirteen-year-old had. "
You see I rest my case…. Some reviews do more damage that anything else. Just because they try and be "cutting edge" or some other shit…. That just p*sses me off so badly.
That is not objective…or good journalism… That actually is an insult to real game journalist out there. No wonder they will never be seen as "real" journalists. I f***** hate people like that.
That is why I only come here (PSX) for any news and reviews. I feel you guys speak the truth and are blinded by brand loyalty. You give 360 games credit when they deserve it and you give true reviews when others just want to suck up on the hype (MW2 for instance).
Reviews don't matter because they can't be trusted that is what I say. I use PSX as a general guide but in the end I still make my final choices on what I buy and what I don't.
Reviews is not a selling point in my opinion…
Mainly because of idiots like these guys at Destructoid…. w*nkers!!!
Sorry for double post. Just in case anyone wanted to see the sh*t these guys wrote go have a look:
http://www.destructoid.com/deadly-premonition-is-blatantly-better-than-heavy-rain-165288.phtml
WWWWWTTTTTTTTFFFFFFFFFF?????
Here's a post that sums it all up:
jjacinto23
HEY STOP THIS TROLLING $HIT YOU"RE MAKING DESTRUCTOID A BIAS WEBSITE………THAT'S WHY A LOT OF GAMERS HATE YOUR REVIEWS BECAUSE THEY KNOW YOU'RE A BIG TROLLING FANBOY