Ben-DutkaWe heard whispers about the PlayStation 4 last year and those whispers will probably grow in volume and frequency this year, but have no fear, because it's still a ways off. Furthermore, despite the advent of digital distribution, it seems Sony is still planning to use discs for their new machine.
This according to a recent Play3 interview with Senior Vice President of Product Development at Sony Computer Entertainment America, Shuhei Yoshida. He says the big blockbuster titles will "continue to appear on a disc" and believes 100% digital distribution is a better fit for handhelds. Said Yoshida (forgive the broken translation):
"I think that digital content easier to portable devices like the PSP or the iPod fits. It's faster, easier and more convenient than a CD, and the volumes of data keep both in music and play in bounds."
He reminds us that these days, game developers often use the entire capacity of a 50GB Blu-Ray disc to produce their visions, which would result in unbearably long download times on the PS3. Obviously, as download speeds continue to get faster, this might not pose a problem in the coming generations but Sony isn't really counting on that. If they were, the PS4 would be completely digital like the PSP Go but it appears they have no intention of entirely abandoning physical media for their next console. This certainly comes as good news to those who have expressed great chagrin at the loss of discs, although you can bet that despite the complaints, digital distribution is here to stay.
@Ben
You're right they each have positives and drawbacks. Just comes down to personal preference. I'm all for both co existing.
@Akuma07
If I downloaded something that was 70gigs in size I would have it backed up, so no starting over.
Digital storage is proven to last just as long if not longer than physical media (records/cds/cartridges) and you have the luxury of duplicating on more than one digital storage device. I can't take my NES cartridge of Battletoads and copy it BUT I can have multiple copies of it in digital format (rom) on more than one device.
The perfect scenario is co existence between the two. I think it's possible and the more choices people have the better.
Akuma07 – Well, BDs are supposed to have at least a 50-year life if well-kept…maybe longer if kept vacuum-sealed in the dark. But I can't imagine playing 50+yo games (though many ~30yo ones are still fun right now), so MAYBE never die before you or your own interest in it does.
@LV thats why i was asking if the download and back up got deleted or currupted would you have to pay to get it again?
and also you say some1 could steal my physical games, but would that same person not also steal my ps3 or device that i used to download and store my games/media?
@kevyd09
All is well, if your physical backup of any game you have is lost you're able to download the game again for free. An example of this is already available on the PC side of things. An application called Steam allows you to not only buy and download any game but activate any existing games you've physically bought in stores. All your games are saved in your account and no matter where you are or what computer you're on you're able to get on your account and play your games. So there never is a worry for me if a backup hard drive fails since it's all backed up online.
@Ben;
[ Applause ]
yeah i understand but what if your backups get corrupted too? =P
plus like, not everyone has the luxury of being able to have multiple HDDs to backup things on.
But i do agree on the last bit, co-existance would be the perfect scenario.
Good to know PS4 will retain Blu Ray.
When you said downloads speed continue to get faster I certainly I don't see the difference in my country for the last few years.
I'm quiet sure Sony wouldn't want the death of the blu-ray, they'll keep on promoting it, MS would one way or the other have to pay Sony to get blu-ray support for their next Xbox or they'll make their own CDs called MS Green-Rays. Because making a digi-only console is very RISKY.
I'm also happy with physical media. But the ps4 in three or four years could easily have a 1 or 2 tb hard drive. Storing games won't be the problem but downloading them. I have 35 mbps connection but on psn, I only download one or two mbps. Downloading 50 or more gigs with only a fraction of my real speed would take years.
now i'm going to play mag…
Last edited by Wraith on 1/4/2010 5:10:52 PM
OMG!!
I forgot the MAG beta has already started.
And I left my PS3 on for more than 15 hours hours just to update it.
That's good, very wise choice from Sony hope the PS4 will be even better than the PS3.
It's stupid for ANYONE to be considering digital distribution only for another few to several years. While some type of broadband Internet access is available to most people, some 11% of suburban people and 24% of rural people don't even have the option to get it (and don't say 256-500kbps satellite options are decent broadband!). Not only that, but many people that do have broadband options have pretty low speeds (only up to 1-2Mbps) available.
Until just about EVERYONE has access to AT LEAST 5-8Mbps broadband and the providers of those don't have any bandwidth restrictions and much larger HDs (like .5-1TB) are standard on all consoles, digital downloads of several to a few dozen GB-sized titles would be more trouble than they are worth and likely fewer people would buy them compared to physical media.
That makes me laugh sooooooooo much.
Im using 256kbps, still play online games and all that, and your saying 1-2mbps is low….
What i would do to get my hands on a 1mbps internet connection……
The real problem, is that major countries dont have the option for high speed internet, or at least at affordable prices.
We can have up to 20mbps speeds here (never guaranteed you get it) and those plans are upwards of $100AUD per month.
And another big problem, is that uncapped downloads arent widely available either, people would go over their download limits in the first week of the month, even the most expensive plans would still only offer maybe 50GB of downloads, it might seem alot now, but if your downloading all these next gen games, thats like only one game per month, IF THAT.
Last edited by Akuma_ on 1/4/2010 10:02:22 PM
That's exactly what I was saying…
I said UP TO 1-2Mbps was slow broadband (and implied that 256-500kbps didn't really count as 'broadband') and that bandwidth restrictions need to go away. While I was mainly referring to the USA in the percentages given, until the infrastructure is there (at a reasonable price and more massive local storage is standard), digital download only distribution doesn't make sense.
Last edited by xnonsuchx on 1/5/2010 12:17:21 AM
The point is, the world isnt ready, and wont be for decades.
It took a decade or more for the world to fully convert to DVDs.
For a full conversion to digital distribution, the developer would have to assume that 9/10 households have access to Highspeed uncapped internet.
IMAGINE the amount of jobs people would loose, unemployment would skyrocket.
Also if the gaming market goes digital, so would music and movies, that would put millions out of work.
Like i said, the world isnt ready, and will not be anytime soon.
The key thing many are forgetting here is that as internet speeds increase so do the size of the files for media. It used to be 56k and 400mb game files. Now we're getting 10mb download rates and 8 gig game files.
Digital distribution has a place in gaming. It's here as a choice alongside physical media.
ãs ive said a billion and one times, speed is not really the problem.
leave it on overnight and boom its done!
its bandwidth, imagine the issues it would cause if thousands of people are trying to download the same game at the same time.
hell, look what happened to the MAG servers today.
as for the next media for the PS4, i would like to think holographic disks should be available by then.
pioneer i think it was, are working on a 500GB bluray disk which will work on todays bluray players.
but sony likes to bring new media with every console so holograms is the next step.
maybe the minority report is not that far off after all.
The thing is, I have a typical residential DSL connection. If I were to attempt to download something in the 25GB range it would take (even at my peak bandwidth) about 3 and a half hours. That assumes 1) the bandwidth is constantly at it's maximum, no other person in the house does anything, the phone doesn't ring (Vonage takes bandwidth) and nothing interrupts the download during the time it's running.
Now, I will grant you that it will almost certainly finish overnight. However I might as well have gone down to my local retailer in the meantime and purchased the physical disc. The chances of me streaming HD video at the bitrates requires are nil.
I also have to point out that human nature ruins the party because if I purchase an HD video or a full game that has to download overnight, I am not too happy because I want it then, not the next day. Lastly, my PS3 has a 32GB HDD, I could fit a higher capacity drive, but then I have to be able to backup my downloaded content or else a hard disc failure because the most inconvenient thing ever because I would have to re-download hundreds of GB of content.
Right now digital delivery puts a lot of burden on the user which ultimately I think will backfire. As the net develops and gets faster I think that the best 'solution' will be a combination of local storage (either HDD or solid state) and cloud based storage. The local storage acts more like a cache, and the cloud based storage becomes the primary storage location. Of course this can't happen until Internet bitrates allow full HD video streaming and games that are 10's of GB in size to be downloaded and played in real time, not after a lengthy delay for download.
yea, digital distribution wont take over for a long, long time.
but cloud gaming, well depending on what the requirements are.
i remember reading that to use onlive you need a absolute minimum connection of 5Mbps.
they did not mention how much download usage playing say crysis for 1 hour would take.
if its only low than i think it could give media a run for its money.
if its going to be high and i end up wasting my download usage on playing games than its going to be a massive flop.
one thing there forgetting is allot of countries still have limited download usage, here in AU you can only get unlimited if you have ADSL2+ and most people dont have access to that.
if your stuck with cable like me the max you can get is 30 GBs per month.
and i like to surf the web, do some research and download stuff.
if any more than 30% of my monthly usage is going towards playing games than i dont want it.
but if somehow i can play crysis for 4 hours off onlive and its only eaten up i dont know what number would be possible but lets say 300MBs per hour.
than i would be all for it, and id buy it day one.
Thank goodness, I like having discs. Not 100% trusting the digital as of yet.
PS4 wow already talking that interesting maybe by then it;ll be 3D gaming 🙂
hello …
i knew SONY wouldn't drop disc support 😉
MS will not less likely go for a blu-ray drive in their next Xbox (ego or marketing issue !? 😉 ) so i suppose it will be for digital content, how can a game meet or beat the gen's quality …
let Downloadable games be those small cool ones & blockbusters one be on 50GB or More Blu-ray !!
cheers!
Nice to hear sony sticking with physical media for the next generation. I wonder what microsoft will do for their next media format for the xbox 3?
Hmmm…I'm not sure if digital download would make the reverse engineers' job easier. Maybe, maybe not.
Also, I would like to backup each and every thing in my digital library, and would be very pissed if companies deny me that in order to prevent piracy. Killzone 2, anyone?
If the hardware is fast enough for real time decryption of encrypted content as well as being tamper resistant, then reverse engineering may be very, very difficult. You would have top be able to break the encryption scheme, as well as gain access to the hardware itself. Since the encryption can be altered at any time, and the hardware is protected, I think that reverse engineering will be more and not less difficult.
The PS3 has been available for more than three years and has not yet been successfully hacked.
I agree regarding backups, but as I said elsewhere if the industry does go all digital download, I think it will require the ability of the network to provide viable cloud based storage for all users instead of using local HDDs. That way, you won't need to worry about backing up your download, as it will be available from the cloud at all times.
TH – Maybe a PS3 Linux cluster can help hack the encryption? 😉
That's the thing about encryption, when someone breaks your scheme, you switch to a different scheme.
looks like they have finally hacked the PS3.
you seen any of the ZPack videos?
probably a fake, but if its real o boy.
but these guys are complete idiots, IF it does work why would you post it all over the net.
i would try and get the word out, but not make such a loud splash.
if it does work sonys going to be all over it in a second and give them a month and it will be patched.
I live in the so called "internet capital of the world", and I must say, I am horrified at the very thought of pure digital distribution! The internet is not anywhere CLOSE to ready for the required bandwidth. This is the reason Blu-ray is making such a big hit, and while digital downloads are having such a slow start. I use Netflix to rent DVDs, Blu-rays, and streaming content. The content I stream on my computer and PS3 looks like GARBAGE! It is the worst looking filth in terms of video and audio quality! And YouTube is even worse! Blu-ray is here to stay people. It would be pointless to downgrade a system that can already support Blu-ray to such a small and feeble form of distribution.
Of course Microsoft wants to drop using discs on their next console, good luck with that. You never even got Blu-ray on your console, so I guess your games are always going to be tiny compared to Sony's games.
I applaud and commend Sony for keeping the Blu-ray disc format alive and kicking for gaming as well as movies! I have been supporting the format since the early days of the format war, and only now has it really started to hit a good stride. There are plenty of years left for the format, as well as the PS3 console. Although I do look forward to what they will do with the PS4, I just hope they can launch it at a price close to $400.
Yeah. I hope Microsoft do abandon discs in their next console. It would mean a spectacular failure, since almost nobody would be able to buy any games for it.