Ben-DutkaThis has to stop. And while I'm certain the Wii fans out there will quickly scoff and say, "that's just because you know that Sony or Microsoft has no hope of catching Nintendo in terms of sales," that's hardly the point. The point – for the six millionth time – is that the Wii is not in direct competition with the PlayStation 3 or Xbox 360.
With the recent surge of the PS3, the question has returned: can Sony catch Nintendo? Can it "win" this generation as far as overall sales are concerned? Well, considering the huge lead the Wii has, it seems unlikely or, at the very least, it'll take a while for the PS3 to catch up. However, all of this is irrelevant as it seems clear to me that while the PS3 and 360 target a certain demographic, the Wii targets an entirely different demographic. And now, with the release of the stellar Uncharted 2 , it becomes even more evident that the PS3 and Wii offer completely different entertainment experiences. Now, in no way am I saying one is "better" than the other, but I have yet to know anyone who actively plays the Wii and also owns a PS3 and 360 and if they do , it's so they can play with the kids or with a spouse. The bottom line is that the PS3 and 360 are here to drive the industry forward in a certain area; in the realm of technology and overall advancement. The Wii gives us an alternate interactive experience, and that is perfectly viable – obviously – but if you don't think Gears of War 2 and Wii Resort don't cater to different people looking for different things, you're out of your mind.
I've said it before and I always catch a lot of flak for it, but I think it's that my words are misinterpreted. When I say the Wii caters to the non-gamers out there, I'm saying it successfully attracts those who never once touched a video game controller before Nintendo's new system. And when I say the other two are for gamers, it's because those who have loved the hobby with a passion for many years are – typically – more drawn to that type of progressive software. I use Uncharted 2 as an example simply because it really proves that we're looking at a gap – a widening gap – between PS3/360 software and Wii software. As I predicted a long time ago, the Wii would blast off quick but the software would begin to lag and if you haven't noticed, it seems almost impossible that a Wii game will ever compete for Game of the Year in 2009 or in the future. Honestly, it's not fair, anymore. You can't compare Forza 3 or Modern Warfare 2 to anything on the Wii; that's a ridiculous comparison.
Hence, it's also ridiculous to compare the sales numbers. Once again, this is not a knock against the Wii; I'm simply saying it's different ; that it goes after a different group of people. Yes, I'm sure there are those of you who own all three systems but I can pretty much guarantee that very few of you play each of those three consoles equally… And for my part, I only know people who either own a PS3 and 360 or a Wii and nothing else. They're either into video games, or they're into this new fad of interactive entertainment the Wii created. There's nothing wrong with any personal preference but considering what we're seeing from Sony and Microsoft in 2009 and beyond, we really need to stop comparing all three sales numbers as if the games on all three are somehow similar , and that consumers purchase all three for similar reasons. Just…stop.
My sentiments exactly. While the Wii has some great games, the majority of owners are people who don't frequent gaming websites, don't read game reviews and think mini-games are all video gaming is all about. It's PS3 vs 360. The Wii is competing against different products and a different group of people.
Nintendo should enjoy the GOTY they received for Super Mario Galaxy; they aren't ever going to win another one.
Last edited by n/a on 10/22/2009 12:50:53 PM
The Wii is a quality system and I'm sure a lot of people are satisfied with the system, but I consider myself a "hardcore" gamer and the Wii just cannot entertain me enough. I really don't even consider the Wii a "next gen" console. Give me High-def or give me death.
The Wii has Zelda and that's about the only reason I want it… luckly I played the last one on my gamecube so I don't need to buy a Wii for a while I can focus on getting my roof fixed and saving up for the PS3 I was going to buy this month
i totally agree but i'm confident that the ps3 will rule
I don't think they are totally different beasts here. There are a lot of areas where the consoles just cant compete with each other, But the PS3 and 360 are now trying to be more like the Wii with their motion control developments.
But I do agree that so far, the "true" next gen systems (PS3 & 360), have been in a totally different category than the Wii.
Of course, if Sony and Microsoft are successful with their motion efforts, the only thing the Wii will have left is an inferior machine and their major game franchises.
Last edited by Jed on 10/22/2009 12:59:39 PM
PS3 and 360 aren't trying to be like the Wii. They're just showing that the Wii is an add-on not a full game system.
Good point
I agree, The Wii is a direct competitor to the PS3 and Xbox 360 like the Toyota Corolla is a direct competitor to the Rolls-Royce and Cadillac.
lol that was funny
well they are.
both are big square bits of metal with 4 wheels.
just because there marketed to diferent people does not mean there not in competition with each other.
Last edited by ___________ on 10/23/2009 1:23:48 AM
I shall say it again:
The person who ultimately wins the battle is the one that never realised there was a battle to begin with.
True, in may ways the console war is simply a construct of the market observers and commentators (including us). Sony (and the others) for sure pay more attention to turning a profit and executing their business plan. However, it's fun to analyze the market and make predictions…
totally agree, you cannot compare the systems, developers dont bother making multi plat games for the wii, multiplat means for xbox n ps3, this didnt use to be the case, i remember a soul calibre game last gen where each console had a unique character, one for gamecube ps2 n xbox. this gen soul calibre did the same thing with yoda n darth vader, but only for xbox n ps3, as the wii does not compete with the other 2, my wii collects dust until my mates come round and we wanna bash of tennis or golf or summing, even then it takes a back seat to PES and GT5P.
seeing that picture kind of makes me want to play Kill Zone 2 right now.
I really wonder if the Wii has a chance to reach 100m or even breaking PS2's sale.
And Ben is right, comparing PS3/360 and Wii is like comparing a high class wine and Coke.
Well that's a bit of a misleading comparison there because most people who drink high class wines do coke…oh wait you meant…right right…I forgot this isn't still the 80's
Cocaine's a helluva drug…
LMFAO!
What movie was this from? I remember this line from somewhere.
Bearbobby, I'd give you another thumb up but sadly I can't.
it was from chappelles show, rick james says it.
dlte – Thanks!
LOL! It's alllll coming back to me now.
Hate it when that happens.
You know, out of all the "hardcore" gamers I know, myself included, ALL have either owned both systems or still own both systems. Both being the 360 and the PS3, and out of those "hardcore" gamers none of them have owned a Wii.
That isn't to say that no "hardcore" gamers own a Wii, I just don't personally know any. I don't count people I know from the internet, because I don't really know them.
And the fact that the people I know own both systems or at least used to, lends to my thinking that the gamers who don't have any "brand loyalty" are the real winners in this whole thing.
Both true next gen systems have been out for long enough for true "hardcore" gamers to save up enough and get both systems, and with the great exclusives that are on both systems, yes both systems have great exclusives, coupled with the fact that both have had significant price cuts there really is no reason not to own both systems.
I had a wii for a while. But after I played Zelda and Re4(which was badass on the wii) I didnt really have a need for it. So I got a psp 2000 and some other stuff.
I think I'm pretty hardcore and I own a Wii. Virtual Console Is great, Oprah web browser works better and is more user friendly then the PS3 browser. And of course any fan of Nintendo's steller franchises like Zelda and Metroid must own a Wii. So far this gen Wii and PS3 have been great. Xbox didn't do it for me and I got tired of repairing it. I wish Nintendo would hurry and release a new Metroid or Zelda but I can wait.
i bought the gamecube version of legend of zelda twilight princess since i wasnt and never would be sold on a waggle controlled zelda game.
"You know, out of all the "hardcore" gamers I know, myself included, ALL have either owned both systems or still own both systems. Both being the 360 and the PS3, and out of those "hardcore" gamers none of them have owned a Wii."
Exactly.
I know Ben has ALWAYS had an issue with the Wii(and he's not alone AND I understand why completely)but as someone who started gaming on the coin ops in my parent's pubs in th late 70's and early 80's(Space Invaders through Galaxian, Astro Wars and Pacman to DK and the introduction of some erstwhle plumber!)I still think there's a place for the Wii in my life and class myself as a pretty serious gamer.
Whatever your opinion of the Wii and it's horsepower deficiency the fact uis that, as a core gamer, you cannot play some of the best and most iconic franchises new titles without one. Jawknee's right about there being hardcore gamers who want to play the next(and last) SMG, Metroid, Zelda, SSB, Punchout!!, S&P2(which, to me, is about as core a title as you'll find in many ways)and a few other classic franchises we're yet to see(Fzero and Starfox anyone?)-and yhey need a Wii.
I get the accusations of Ninty not suporting 3rd paries or not pushing tech this gen. I even agree that they haven't always even made great use of the motion controls they ushered in and certainly didn't help out other devs enough along the way enough(no demos etc on Wii Connect for gamers to try out more mature Wii games which helped them die a lot imo abnd has led to fewer being made). However, a hardcore gamer should want to at least see what Mario's latest proper game is like, see the glorious work of Retro on the Prime series(and now TN with Other M)and so on despite there being fewer games for them in general on the Wii.
Hell, I liked Madworld, Overkill and Extraction this year from 3rds on the Wii with Punchout!! from Ninty themselves and that's as many games as I've played on my 360 this year! Granted that's cos it's been a lean year for 360 exclusives and I'm waitng for Tales on PS3 AND play my multis on PS3 but you see my point and next year should see SMG2, Other M, NMH2 and Res Steel2 among others on the Wii worth playing for proper gamers, no?
Sure the crap on Wii can be overwhelming and no there isn't the same amount of great games as there is on PS3 or 360(esp not now Sony'sdevs are pumping out cassics) but whatever it's issues this gamer doens't wanna miss a good thing when it's released and Zelda and Metroid, esp, are among my favourite series ever made. Accept it as an occasional treat provider Ben and you'll get the benefit of the odd gem now and then.
On the other side of the coin it's also brought a lot of people into gaming and, long term, that means MORE core gamers and not fewer so ultimately Wii could prove a great thing for all of gaming, no? Don't let it get to you fella!
How many Wii owners do you know that have bought a game that is anything other than Wii Fit or Wii Play? (which people buy to get a second controller), I know just one.
@Ben
I agree with you 99% as I do most of the time however there's still that 1% that's missing. In terms of the people who have all three systems, I know few. Yea I know I said few, but hey, it counts for something. You are right that most people don't have all three BUT, for the people who do own them, I think it's safe to say that not all do so for reasons to play with their kids and or spouse. It's not the majority and that's why I only tool out a percent 😉 however I just thought that was SLIGHTLY unfair.
I know, I know, watch me catch some heat for this…o well.
Me…
I have 41 games on my usb hard drive. I also have the recently re-done Contra game as a channel. If you look at the store, there are a crap load of nes, snes and 64 games worth getting as well.
Trust me when I say that I am a gamer, not a fanboy, I love all of my systems. It is just that the wii has some games that I want to play that are not on any other platform.
I would never admit it is a true gaming system up in the ranks of my beloved PS3, but it is a gaming system…
@PS3addict – So you love your Wii for all those great… NES and SNES games? Ooookaaaay.
@ Alienage…
No, that is not the only reason, but it is a redeaming quality.
there are a few great games on the wii:
Punchout
Zelda
House of the dead (All 3 are fun)
Miramusa Demon blade
Cursed Mountain
Metroid Prime 1-3
Mario Galaxy
Slim picks, no doubt, but they are fun. Yeah, the graphics suck, but I am after nastalgia and good old gaming fun whern I turn that system on. I was never expecting next gen, but I was expecting a new metroid…
Yes, I love the fact that I can play my old school games on a newer system, but that is not why I like the wii. I think it is fun, and I like some games on it. I agree that the system will never be up with the big dogs even though they have the IP to do it with, but again, there are a FEW games worth playimg on it.
I'm a huge Nintendo and Wii fan and I agree. I see don't them as competition either. PS3 may or may not outsell the Wii but it doesn't matter. It's importent for Sony to succeed over MS. MS have done more harm then good to games this gen and letting them become the dominant force in the market is a path way to mediocrity and regression.
I think of the Wii as a sort of novelty item: fun, cute, laughable… but not much depth to it…great as a gag gift. Shovelware will be their downfall..too many of the same old, tired ideals, just repackaged.
I've owned two of 'em and I've sold two of 'em. I bought the first as a 'family' gift- never played it. Bought the second for my son- who is 5, going on 6- he plays my PS3 more- so got rid of that one. I'll prolly end up buying him the slimboy for his birthday so I can reclaim my fatboy…sorry, off topic a bit..haha
Its simple the Wii is a toy
As usual, this editorial brings up some well thought out and logical points. It's just a shame that atleast half the word count needs to be taken up with disclaimers to satisfy agressive fanboys that don't even read the article to see the disclaimers.
Yeah, that's unfortunate, isn't it?
I get the feeling that if N4G didn't exist, though, I probably wouldn't have to. I can trust most of the PSXE readership to understand what I'm saying without the disclaimers.
I own all 3 and also agree the Wii is not competition to the ps3. They clearly offer very different experiences.
That being said as someone who has been a gamer for 20 years I find just as many games worth playing on the Wii as on the ps3. Both get very equal playtime from me while my 360 collects dust.
It is because the Wii and PS3 are different that I even own both to begin with while I regret my 360 because of it's similarities to the PS3 while offering very little in terms of exclusives I enjoy.
In fact even though the ps3 has some insanely good games coming out lately my most anticipated games for the next 2 months or so are all Wii exclusive games.
EDIT: I'm not sure why this went here this was not intended as a reply
Last edited by piratedrunk on 10/22/2009 3:42:36 PM
we all knew the wii would fall off cuz its for 5 year old chinese girls
Well, I do agree with the majority of the article except for the statement that "but I have yet to know anyone who actively plays the Wii and also owns a PS3 and 360 and if they do, it's so they can play with the kids or with a spouse." Of course, you do not personnally know me, but I play Miramusa demon blade and house of the dead on the wii pretty often. Me, not the kids or the wife, but me the hardcore gamer of the house…
I am also dabbling in Cursed Mountain, and I played the hell out of Zelda. Next are the Metroid Trilogy games.
I am on my second run of Uncharted 2 on hard, and am loving it. Not to say that the wii competes with my PS3 or even my PS2, but there are a FEW good games that I play. Oh yeah, Punchout.. Another great wii game I play at least 2 times a week…
Last edited by PS3addict on 10/22/2009 2:33:04 PM
Yea am also on my 2nd run on Hard. This time am going as Schafer, he looks funny performing all those stunts hahahaaaaa……….I LOVE Uncharted 2!
i beat uncharted on hard first cause i cant be bothered to play games on normal settings anymore. Beat the game in less than 1 day. I also beat it on crushing in about the same time. Once you figure out the strategy in hard mode, crushing will be cake for you man.
Ben, You've been preaching this for a long time. So have I, since the bloody Wii launched, in fact. There are two markets in gaming High Definition and Standard Definition. To get the best of a PS3 or 360 you have to have an HDTV, to get the best from a Wii or PS2 you have to have a standard TV (SDTV). The market clearly segments by technology. The 'next generation' that was supposed to be what this generation is was all about High Definition. Well, the Wii isn't and can't be High Definition. Therefore it's not in the same market. The competition for the Wii is the PS2. It always has been this way since the Wii launched.
You can talk about the kinds of games the Wii plays, and the kinds of gamers that Wii targets, and they are all good points that further separate the Wii from the PS3/360.
I am so sick of people talking about Wii as if it mattered to either Microsoft or Sony. It truly doesn't because they are not the same consumers. If Wii was selling to the same consumers, the same market and demographic segments than Microsoft and Sony might have something to think about. Now the thing is, Sony has been selling the PS3 to a more affluent market segment than the 360 for the last three years. Most consumers had not caught on that the PS3 was in fact already less costly (on balance) than the 360. They looked at the sticker, and PS3 was relegated to those who wanted a BluRay player, those who just had to have the latest Playstation and those who wanted both and had the money. Microsoft on the other hand targeted a more price sensitive consumer and went after the supposed lower end of the market. Conventional wisdom would say that the 360 should outsell the PS3 on this basis alone. But is didn't. At 35 months from launch, the PS3 is in a better position sales wise, than the 360 was at it's 35 month mark. The PS3 has sold better than the 360 did, despite heavy competition and a disadvantageous price. Now The PS3 costs the same as the 360, based on the sticker price, and the 360 comes with an extra $50 Albatross around it's neck called XBL fees. The PS3 is demonstrably less expensive, clearly has more features with the BluRay player, and does everything that the 360 does. Not to mention games like Uncharted 2.
Where am I going with this stream of thought?
Here.
Wii is not competition for the PS3, it's up against 140 million PS2s and cheap gaming. 360 is the competition, and it's easy to demonstrate why the PS3 is already in a superior position. I have not mentioned the reliability and monstrous numbers of 360 consoles sold as replacements for dead 360s. Nor have I drawn in the contrasting positions of PS3/360 in Japan, Europe and the rest of the world, against the North American market.
If I were Microsoft, I would be very concerned. I don't know if they ever worry. For the first time, they followed Sony with a pricing move – to catch up. The PS3 led sales in every region globally in September. Halo 3 ODST had, for a Halo game, crap sales numbers and the major JRPGs are now coming to PS3, with enhancements. I believe that the smoke and mirrors are being warmed up in Redmond for the Holiday season and a Project Natal launch in the spring. Unless Natal brings a virtual character that's prettier than Megan Fox, I don't see the traditional 360 user base jumping on it, and Sony has exclusive after exclusive coming month after month. A difficult position for Microsoft.
It's not necessarily plain sailing for Sony, but the troubled waters of the last three years should be calming down for them.
Extremely well said. Agree 100%. 🙂
@TheHighlander
Which HDTV do you own, because I can't seem to find a 32" that does not have the ghosting problem?
Last edited by psxmax on 10/22/2009 2:39:43 PM
To tell the truth, i'm not sold on this motion tech and natal. Its gonna be a while for the games to come out that makes it worth it. Well, i dont know about sony because their many first party studios were probably hard at work already. All microsoft got is money but it could be enough to dig themselves out a bit. They should have focused on getting first party studios or actually keeping the studios they had.
I see great potential with sony's motion controllers just because we know what happens when sony's first party studios can do (uncharted 2) when they focus on it.
Microsoft's Natal on the other hand, I feel isnt quite as strong. I mean, i dont want to talk to a damn digital kid like like lionhead studios. It does promise more immersion with games but if hard core gamers are like me, i tend to play for more than an hour at a time. having my arm being held out for racing games or jumping around the whole time like that ball demo they had for E3, fatigue will set in. Not to mention that microsofts accessory pricing is rediculous which will be a entry barrier for this.
@ZZZ, I have a viewsonic 32-inch 720p/1080i HDTV, a 23-inch viewsonic 720p/1080i HDTV/Monitor, and a 22-inch Asus 1080p monitor. I don't get any ghosting on my screens, although the older viewsonic has developed an area that's a little darker than the rest of the screen, it looks like the backlight may have a problem. It's very slight, and the TV is more than 3 years old now.
@Johnld
I don't see how it can offer more immersion. Sony has EyePet which only uses the PSEye and allows you to interact with a virtual pet in your own living room. The pet tracks your movements and responds to things you do, and draw. I'm not sure if Eyepet includes speech recognition, but SingStar does. Combine these capabilities with the additional functionality of the new controller when it comes along. How does Natal offer more than that?
@thehighlander
I wasnt trying to compare it to the sony technology, i was talking more of a generality concerning how games are played now. Example instead of moving the control stick to move a car, you can actually mimic real world driving technically by moving your arms. I dont have any big problems with motion technology. my concern is more about gamer fatigue. I like racing games and FPS games but having to hold my hand out pretending to drive or holding a gun can be quite taxing when done for continous play like i do. i can easily play 2-3 hours straight playing COD4 or Killzone 2. But the fact that sony is also using motion tech which could mean that you might have to do the same action with other sony Fps games, i just see natal as more complicated and taxing.
@john
I gotcha. Well, I'm a big skeptic when it comes to motion capture/sensing/control in video games. I think it has a place in specific games, and with specific novel control schemes. However, I don't think that the Dual Shock is in any danger of disappearing.
Personally I think that this whole fashion to being motion controls to PS3 and 360 is a bit like the Emperor's new clothes. Are we all just to afraid to say that the big fat dude with the crown is naked as the day he was born?
@Highlander
Sony needs to use your first post as a marketing campaign. Just sweeten it up with catch phrases and such. Your right on target on the entire situation.
I can agree with a lot of what you say… BUT… if 360 is the only competition, why is it that SONY until just recently has pretty much FAILED to beat down the competition when one third of their machines end up DEAD?
Quite simply there is a huge segment of PS2 owners who have moved on to the Wii and have not yet invested in a PS3. I would think that a former PS2 owner that owns a Wii would be EXACTLY the segment that SONY would like to win back. Even if the technology is not up to snuff, that would still mean that Nintendo is the competition. I'm looking at this as a business man. If I saw all these people that own PS2s moving on to Wii I'd be pissed off! I wouldn't consider it a non threat or not competition!
If their only competition is a company that can't produce quality hardware, and they still don't have a significant lead, then they are FAILURES. I think the story is different. I think they lost a good portion of their PS2 audience to the Wii… for the time being. I also believe that they will be back when there is a more diverse catalog for the PS3 and it's cheap enough.