Ben-DutkaTurtle Rock gave us Left 4 Dead and they're currently working on the very promising Evolve .
But now they're in the news for a different reason.
They've fired former community manager Josh Olin after he Tweeted about embattled Los Angeles Clippers owner Donald Sterling. Sterling was recently banned for life from the NBA and given the maximum $2.5 million fine for making racial comments to his girlfriend. Olin first Tweeted that Sterling was a "victim."
Turtle Rock apologized for Olin's comments, saying they don't represent the community's values. But Olin later clarified his comments to Kotaku :
"Anyone who follows me knows my tweets were not in support of Sterling's actions. Rather, they were promoting three core tenets I believe in: 1) The harm sensational media presents to society. 2) The importance and sanctity of your privacy within your own home. And 3) The right to be whatever you want to be as an American, as long as it isn't hurting anyone else. That last point not to be confused with condoning Sterling's actions, which I don't."
Olin added that he was disappointed that Turtle Rock and 2K "bought into this hysteria without even having a conversation with me." He also added on his Twitter page that he was attacking sensational media and defending free speech, and he stands by that.
So, should he have been fired? I'm not about to jump onto that land mine but you discuss among yourselves.
I think it is pretty ridiculous he got fired. Also while I don't condone Sterling's behavior it is kind of messed up he got banned for life over a private comment he made in his own home that happened to be recorded. Least he wasn't out at the NBA games shouting similar things.
But whatever it is one thing for a filthy rich guy to be banned from owning a team and attending NBA games it is another for someone I assume is not rich to be fired over some comments made online.
Last edited by Shauneepeak on 5/1/2014 11:12:16 PM
First of all, Sterling was a well known slumlord in LA. And who openly discriminated against minorities. So people need to get informed before they start hanging the tag "victim" on old Sterling.
Second of all, his GF had Sterling's full permission to record his conversations. That is why Sterling has not come forward accusing her of "setting him up" or doing it illegally. They had agreed about it.
In fact, Sterling's attorneys now are saying that the recording was leaked by someone else. Not his GF. So much for the conspiracy theory that his GF was working for Magic Johnson.
THIRD and the most important fact, is that FREE SPEECH doesn't come free of CONSEQUENCES.
That is something that both Sterling and Olin are going to have to learn the hard way. Because they are free to say whatever they want. But as long as they work for organizations that don't want to be dragged into a toxic situation, they are going to have to pay the consequences for voicing (to put it like Olin said on Twitter), "unpopular opinions".
Last edited by Bonampak on 5/2/2014 2:24:33 PM
I thought Valve didn't develop L4D. It's them Turtle Rock guys who did.
Last edited by Temjin001 on 5/1/2014 11:05:10 PM
I always thought they made headphones.
you might be right. Valve probably also makes crowbars.
Turtle Beach! lol
I think it's fine for Sterling to be saying any racist thing he wants to anybody but once it goes public then it's also fine for him to pay for it. You can't have someone in power that's openly racist in a position to use discriminatory practices. From there it's all business, nobody wants to work for, attend, buy merchandise from, or buy advertising during events with a man like that in charge. This isn't his first racist rodeo, he has a record of it and now it's just public. You reap what you sow.
As for Olin, same goes pretty much. Your twitter feed is watched by industry folks and you represent your studio so you can't bring hell down on them.
This was Olin's comment it is still on his Twitter feed.
"Here's an unpopular opinion: Donald Sterling has the right as an American to be an old bigot in the security of his own home. He's a victim."
I think it would have been fine to give him a warning or something over this but it's not like he said Sterling's behavior was fine just that it was simply something said in his own home and should not have gone public. Not something I feel Olin should have been fired over.
Sterling is 81 years old the amount of racist old people I see everyday is a lot and most people I know simply shake it off as they are from another time. Hell one of my professors is like 85 and we have to keep scolding him that he is being borderline racist at times.
I did not know this was not his first time making such comments. But like I said I think it is one thing to have someone like Sterling banned it is another for a guy simply giving his opinion on the matter to be fired from his job instead of being given a warning.
IDK this just doesn't sit well with my freedom of expression belief. I understand that a company has to support the image they desire and has the right to fire those who taint that image. But Onlin's comment just doesn't seem that bad in my eyes.
Last edited by Shauneepeak on 5/1/2014 11:25:54 PM
I don't think it's that bad either, I would have warned him if I was the boss. Or maybe just said be more careful, son. But it isn't the government sensoring his freedom of expression so it really has nothing to do with being an America, he's under corporate rulership here.
I agree with you World to a point. Sterling's comments could have hurt the team and the business that surrounds it and his ban from the NBA may have been a logical business decision.
But free speech isn't free if you're getting fired from your job for posting your opinions online in your free time like in Olin's case. Maybe if the company started to see a negative reaction from the public that could impact game sales, ok I can see that, maybe.
Or if the twitter comment was regarding the company itself, then yeah, maybe there too. But I'm with Shaunee that this doesn't sit well with my freedom of expression belief. I think, like so many other things in this (American) society lately, the pendulum has swung too far.
Last edited by SaiyanSenpai on 5/1/2014 11:51:58 PM
But your right to free speech doesn't protect you from being fired for exercising it.
Yeah, apparently not. Still doesn't sit right with me though. Guess I gotta watch what I say.
(o _o )…( o_ o)
Last edited by SaiyanSenpai on 5/2/2014 12:46:00 AM
we ALL do. If my next boss is a raging racist republican I'm gonna shut my mouth and say "yes sir"
Has anyone considered that this twitter event was only a catalyst. Maybe they were looking for an excuse to fire this person. And this was it.
Everything you say on Twitter is part of the public domain. I truly hope for everyone here and in the gaming community, that's the big takeaway. You have a freedom of expression, but you'll have to take responsibility for EVERYTHING you say, especially things you say in public. Be careful, ALWAYS think before you speak! (or tweet!)
There are a number of things your free speech and way of living cannot be used to fire you after 3 months of employment. Examples include your political party affiliation (vote preference), creed, etc.
You are not protected in your belief of acceptable racism.
Under… He is not defending racism…
He is pointing out the sensationalism of the media and the erosion of freedom of speech. He was fired for HAVING A POLITICAL VIEW!
I did not say he was defending racism. And that is not a political view. Don't confuse political correctness with politics. It's not the same thing. Party affiliation and vote preference have nothing to do with anything here.
Don't work in public relations and put your opinions out there if you aren't ready to deal with the consequences when you jeopardize the welfare of the company you are representing.
My thoughts exactly.
What Olin said in his full tweet wasn't horrible or damning at all. Certainly the company reacted before even having the chance to see or experience any negative backlash, if any were to exist at all. Josh Olin may be able to exercise his rights and sue the company or fight to get his job back.
Last edited by SaiyanSenpai on 5/1/2014 11:54:54 PM
Sue? You and Donald Sterling would get along GREAT.
(-_-) doubtful.
If you are wrongfully terminated from your job, you have options. Sterling wasn't wrongfully terminated. However, based on Olin's statement and the reaction to it, he has a good case to argue that he was.
He could say they discriminated against him, but he should just move on.
If he sues Turtle Rock, word gets out among the industry and it would be the kiss of death for his career in public relations.
Yeah, you need to be cautious about public comments. I think his firing is way too excessive, but it's a good example of why you can't be too careful. Especially if your role is in PR.
However, I agree with his point to a degree in that the NBA and the owners need to be extremely careful of how they try to encourage the sale of the team. I'm not American, but from what I understand, a vote from a board of directors from a league doesn't have more authority than a supreme court. When you break it down to it's roots, it boils down to something as simple as an opinion which, while insane, does not quite fall into the "hate crime" category. For that reason, it would be a huge stretch to say he broke the law, and it would make more sense the way the law is written for him to sue the league for illegally forcing him out of a major personal and private asset that is a huge source of income… especially since when you break it down, the owners are trying to force the sale due to their collective private interest, as far as the league is concerned. If they aren't careful, they might create a win/win situation for Sterling where a lawsuit could net him far more than the sale of his team would earn him. Then the victims would be the league and the owners who face the lawsuit… What's worse now, to me, is that now that the league commish has said they might try to do that, how might the tactful, cautious owners, especially those that can't afford to lose a lawsuit that size, afford to publicly be known to vote against forcing a sale?
Know where I'm going with this? If you ask me, the commish made a huge mistake not keeping every card close to his chest…
Last edited by Underdog15 on 5/2/2014 1:15:59 AM
Once again showing how relentless social media is, we all make mistakes and regrets but in the age we live in it seems it does not allow us to recollect the fault and move on. Such a minor comment (Which if it is what was posted above is very minor) can stain ones reputation for life. What a wonderful world we live in.
We want gaming news.
And… then… so… like…
yeah, here. read the article?
Then go tell GameSpot, IGN, Kotaku and every other source that covered this (and the lawmaker story).
No idea what you classify as "gaming news," but yeah, this qualifies.
Disregard Ben, this is most certainly gaming news (and I for one am glad to see it covered here).
Agreed.. Some of the biggest news in sports has leaked into the gaming world.. Certainly is worth chatting about and sharing thoughts
wow, to sack the guy just because of that id be throwing the brick at them!
I've been fired from a zillion jobs, after all, without no struggle there is no progress. Learn from it and move on!
Last edited by Palpatations911 on 5/2/2014 7:04:07 AM
You've been fired from a zillion jobs, or is that a quote?
Its an exaggeration, but the part about struggle is from Frederick Douglas..
I see he's yet another ignoramus who doesn't know "free speech" is only about the government not infringing upon it (within reason).
Freedom of Speech just watch what you say!
– Ice T
As long as Olin pointed out those were his views not turtle rocks views I believe we may see a lawsuit over this
No, I don't think so. At least not a successful one. This topic material isn't in the list of opinions/beliefs you can't be fired for.
True, he could probably sue them and win… It will likely be cheaper than the fallout from losing customers, though.
I hate to say it guys, but I think they have enough grounds to say his values don't align him up to be considered a good candidate for a position with their company. And since the opinion he has isn't on a topic that is protected, I think he's toast.
My source is not from a lawyer or anything, but I have been working in employment for what will be 5 years this september.
I won't weigh in on whether this guy should have been fired. I will say that freedom of expression comes with a responsibility for the words you say.
Some of the comments here are sad. Racism is wrong, whether its in the privacy of your home or in public. I'm pretty sure no sane person sympathizes with Nazi belief so why is this any different. Calling a racist a victim shows a shared belief. I'd say we've become very desensitized to serious issues.
"Calling a racist a victim shows a shared belief."
No, it doesn't. Calling that person a racist for no justified reason is actually a form of prejudice.
He was called a victim because of the lack of privacy and how sensationalist media runs the country. That was Olin's opinion; he made it plain that he wasn't defending Sterling's comments. He was defending the principles behind them.
Saying we're not allowed to have those principles is the only "Nazi-esque" part of this whole situation, my friend.
You watch. My concern isn't about the right or wrongness of Sterling's comments. They were obviously wrong. My concern is that the media monster has such huge momentum on this that I believe the NBA and it's owners are at risk of taking action in line with popular opinion. No one would criticize!
But you know what? It -might- be against the law, no matter what the morality is. And I betcha that when it's all said and done, Sterling will not own the team anymore, but he -WILL- be further ahead than anyone. You watch. He will become more profitable because of this than if he had been respectful. And that is the fault of sensationalist media and political correctness.
That might not have been the point the turtle rock guy was making, but it is a very important reason one might side with his point of view.
My point was that racism is a zero tolerance item. Hiding behind freedom of speech and privacy mumbo jumbo is sympathizing with the racist
He wasnt a victim. He has been running minorities out of his rental properties for decades, dating prostitutes and parading around at his games with them, mistreating minorities within his organization including Elgin Baylor..
His wife, Rochelle Sterling, whom also shares his same beliefs is caught on video stating she is an "inspector" for the state so she can make a tally of blacks because they "attract vermin" and "stink" and hispanics because "all they do is sit outside and drink all day"..
Defending him in any way shape or form is only going to make you look like a supporter of him.
The guy still doesnt even think he is a racist, he is quoted saying "he should have paid her off" instead of owning this problem and letting people know he feels remorse. maybe he could garner sympathy then.
Bomani Jones wrote about this A-Hole in 2006 and I think 2009. He is a career racist that will never change because he doesnt think he did anything wrong.
Yeah, and I agree with that Karneli. You're totally right. And Palpatations is right about him not being a victim, either. He deserves any negative repercussions that come his way.
I just think he won't suffer at all due to those that oppose him dealing with it the wrong way. It's not that anyone is protecting him or considering him a victim. It's that the law may see him that way. Decisions in court aren't made based on what is moral or right. They're made based on how the law is written and adhered to.
I sincerely think the excessive public eye and the shout-from-the-rooftops approach of the NBA will serve to help him in the long run.
Remember… this board of directors for the NBA does -not- have more authority than a supreme court…
Sterling's an idiot. We get that. We've known it for years.
Nobody's giving him a pass, and maybe "victim" was the wrong word to use. The point is that blaming Olin is wrong, especially when he's made his beliefs clear, and he was never defending Sterling in the first place. He was simply defending principles we're SUPPOSED to have.
Saying racism is a "zero tolerance issue" doesn't override those principles. Nothing does. That's the point of a principle.
well that quite the interesting story(don't take the wrong way)
happy gaming =)