Ben-DutkaDie-hard fans of the franchise haven't liked the idea from the get-go. So maybe it was inevitable that no matter how the game turned out, the backlash was going to be furious and widespread.
Despite what most all critics are calling a really solid – and in some cases, elite – production, it seems obvious that fans are none too happy with the newly released reboot, DmC: Devil May Cry . If you've ambled over to Metacritic , you will find an 86 average review score from critics, and that's with 41 reviews tallied for the Xbox 360 version (the PS3 version only has 19 reviews, but it also holds an 86 average).
But the average user review score for the same game? 3.2.
Once again, this is why we say you really shouldn't trust user analyses, especially when it comes to certain games. Take last year's Call of Duty: Black Ops II , for instance: The user review Metascore was a 4.0, which we noted back in November . Now, very clearly, DmC is not worth a 3.2 and BOII is not worth a 4.0. Love 'em or hate 'em, the quality of the games in question is well beyond that of the user review scores. Petty hatred and bitter fan hostility badly impact the result and really, it's sort of embarrassing from the standpoint of a member of the gaming community.
Obviously, scores are always debatable. One could make a legitimate argument that maybe these two games shouldn't score above an 8. One could also make an equally legitimate argument that they shouldn't score below a 9. But threes and fours? …maybe we shouldn't trust our peers when silly emotion gets in the way.
Related Game(s): DmC: Devil May Cry
I thought there was good buzz going for this game. Well I guess I'll see what everybody is complaining about. Is Ninja Theory going to be known as the "no respect" developer?
It's the Rodney Dangerfield effect.
It was pretty much expected. I think this represents a lot of things, but I do think most prominently this goes to show that games mean more to people than the findings of assessments that are objective in intent.
Many Dmc fans liked the look and feel and style of classic DMC just fine. The backlash I don't think is because gamers think the game is functionally terrible and flawed beyond reproach but because the soul of the product betrays what they loved about the series and they can't stand the thought of the old being erased for the new….. sort of like Final Fantasy eh?
I'm sorry, but Devil May Cry fans are not allowed to feel as bitter and betrayed as Final Fantasy fans.
DMC has always had a more Western feel, right from the start; it wasn't full of anime or other clearly Japanese-inspired artistry. It was downright Gothic, which is very much European in style. And that attitude and flash was most definitely Western.
So I really don't see how the style and presentation has changed much; Ninja Theory simply took it to another level and honestly, it seemed like a logical step.
But most importantly, despite the changes in combat, DMC is still an action game, through and through. Final Fantasy has basically gone and changed GENRES on us…and that's a very different thing. 🙂
Methinks the gothic style comes from re4 spanish castle research…some game trivia for ya 🙂
yah, I recognize Ben that DMC is still an action game. From what I've seen of the new DMC it's appearance does look and feel very much different by me, western or eastern infleuances or not.
In this issue I feel very much as a street-side bystander. But if I put myself in the shoes of the ardent, the ardent who capcom were afraid of continuing to cater to directly because of DMC4's lackluster response-as they seemingly termed it-to bring in a wider audience, with a clock cycle that's been cut to a clunky half of what it once was, I think I could relate to a degree of the negativity.
Basically, if something like Virtua Fighter, where frames really do matter, and the game received an acutely different artistic direction, consisting of punk'ish and somewhat perverse overtones, I'd be pretty put off. Heck, I'd probably revile it no matter what the emotionally detached had to say about it's quality.
They shouldn't feel as betrayed as Final Fantasy fans because the game is at least close to the original 4. However I can see what temjins getting at. There was something zany and quirky about the first 4 and maybe the more serious tone of this game turned off the old fans?
It was definitely gothic and european in style but a lot of the humor and over the top action stuff felt very japanese it was a really weird blend of things.
Then there is the complete changing of dantes looks which was the last straw for more people than I think is reasonable but meh to each their own.
I'm personally not upset over anything, I did like how the old dante looked more but other than that it looks like a good reimagining to me.
I am sorry but that is a bunch of hypocrisy. When good old cole was changed everybody was up in arms about it. Being called whiners and saying that we are entitled is crap. I gave this game a chance and it failed to impress because of its speed of combat. There is a reason why so many pc gamers or fighting game fans want there games running at a faster frame. It needs precise button pressing and it is something that this game lacks. Everybody can argue till they are blue in their face but it is noticeable. Having to get the pc version so I could be happy is not right. NT should have gotten help in ensuring a game that could run at 60fps.
inFamous 2 was not a reboot.
So, Sawao, are you saying it does deserve the 4's? Or simply that it's a bad game? Perhaps you should do a user review here and give good, sound objective arguments to prove your point.
I mean that seriously. I haven't gotten into DMC ever, so I honestly can't say one way or the other. But the reviews this one is getting is making me think I might. (Hence… new fan to the franchise, potentially)
I can't really tell the difference between the combat systems.
DMC seems the same as DMC4.
I love the new DMC from what i've seen so far.
i don't think anyone here believes it deserves 4's.
the low scores by peer reviews sometimes represents an entirely different set of values. i say it's a reflection of their satisfaction level. it's received a 4 out of 10 on a scale of terrible to ecstatically happy by those who liked DMC the way it was before the change.
Like I've always said, a combination of professional and user reviews is better than looking at only one. For example…
The legend of dragoon had a mixed reception when it came to professional critics, but amongst the customer reviews it was received more positive.
Metacritic—-74 of 100 pro critics (12 reviews)—
Metacritic—-9.3 for user ratings—–
To all who have played this game, should be well aware that TLOD back in those days did not deserve that type of review score at all. It should have been a rock solid 9 out of 10. The pro critics in this case were just flat out wrong.
This dmcdmc is just a heavenly sword 2 gameplay wise with a new devil may cry paint job. To be fair to dmcdmc, it should have around the same review critic scores as heavenly sword and shouldn't be compared to dmc1 or dmc3. I still feel it is inferior to those two. I believe it to be the 2nd worse in the franchise. Mostly because of abandoning the originals gameplay style instead of improving on what was already there. The new appeal does bother me, but was willing to forgive if gameplay met expectations.
Hopefully capcom will still continue the original series and this one can be just a different universe. Just like the many megaman games that were created.
Btw ff13 didn't change genres, it was still a turned based jrpg. It was just too damn linear in all aspects and fast paced. The job switching on the fly and atb with no pause was much similar to FFX-2. That particular game is considered turned based jrpg by many.
Last edited by Ydobon on 1/16/2013 10:42:03 PM
I agree with coffeya it is good to look at both reviews. One of my favourite games last year Binary Domain got less than stellar critic scores, but the user review score was 8.5-9 which is what it deserved to be honest.
Not to mention a couple of the reviewers flat out lied about certain aspects of the game.
But I don't think this game deserves a 4 either, I'm with temjin in that it seems to represent a satisfaction level.
Much like how CoD got a low user review, sure the game plays fine and is somewhat polished but the low user reviews are probably because people are sick of it essentially being the same thing and the low score was their dissatisfaction with that.
sawao: I honestly don't care. I really, really don't. All you're saying is that it's not exactly the way you want it, and to hell with everyone else who likes it. The combat isn't blindingly fast so only .01% of the gaming population can play it effectively. So?
You need the 60FPS on PC, fine. Critics aren't saying the same thing because for the vast majority, it's an absurd thing to say. Not sure why you can't get that.
I can't wait to see the user review score for Ni No Kuni in that case.
I really don't take those user review scores seriously. Many of those reviews are done before the game even releases. Same thing at IMDB. They are meaningless. People have to vent, I guess.
Lets wait until the NPD numbers arrive to see for sure if these haters affected the sales or not. Not like other highly rated games have flopped i.e. Mark Of The Ninja.
That's typical knee jerk hate but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. If you are interested in a level-headed review from regular gamers it can help to sift through the crap and read a couple sensible ones (of course they are all decent here at PSXE) but where professional reviewers are pretty objective sometimes it helps to find a user review where the user has the same thought process or likes and dislikes as you.
I just picked up an old RPG that got bad scores called Venetica and the user reviews I read helped me and wow it's an amazing game.
Fanboy rage
gotta love it
*Selects Fallout 3's "Nerd Rage" perk*
The sooner we all learn to just ignore user ratings, the better. It's bullshit.
So are critic scores sometimes. That's why I don't trust rating scores from anybody but myself. I know what I like, and don't need critics, or users, trying to influence my decision by reading whatever they put out there. I learned long ago to go with instinct instead of anything any review, critic or user, has to say. That's the beauty of today, with the internet, compared to years ago. If I'm on the fence about a game, I'll either wait or go to Youtube now and watch somebody play some of it. Then I'll judge my decision after that.
@Geobaldi
I think some sources are consistent and professional, but you're right. There are some sites that just rate games for their own readership to rise…
I've said this in the past, and others here have too, in other ways… there really should be a governing volunteer board of professional reviewers. It could be the new Metacritic where only reviewers who have proven themselves to be objective, level headed writers could join. A large panel would have to select the sources allowed to join so that no one person is in charge of such a thing.
I dunno… like a gaming writers union (minus the labour supports)… Something… anything to give the industry secured credibility.
Geobaldi: What you said greatly devalues the service critics provide, as if it's entirely unnecessary. Just because you ignore that service doesn't mean everyone else should.
I guess we sorta expected this.
Fans will rage about anything they don't like. I had a hour with the game last night at a friends house. It's a good game, yet something just seems off about it. I'll have to get my own copy some time this week to play it through. It's just something about the gameplay just seems off compared to DMC3 and 4
Most of the whining I heard about this game was Dante looked different and he didn't have white hair . Anytime Capcom drops a video to highlight the game all these trolls talked about how they missed the old Dante or this isn't Dante rarely anything about the game play video.
And on the videos where someone gives this game a thumbs up the trolls attack the person. I played the demo and it feels like a Devil May Cry game to me.
I think you had a lot of people hoping this game would fail so Capcom would pretend this game never happen and they bring back classic Dante and by most accounts the game is doing very well with the critics and they're pissed.
Just goes to show how petty and stupid people can be. Same thing happened to not just BOII but also Resident Evil 6. And no doubt it will happen again to some other game that doesn't warrant such horrid scores.
Why even have user reviews if people are going to desecrate it like this? Just makes the whole thing unreliable.
Thats debatable. Now let me stop there for a sec, and say you can tell when a user review is, well, not good. But if id have only read the review from here for Borderlands 1 for instance, I never would have got the game. Rather I listened to people, and took my excitement for that type of game and ran with it. Got the game and not one regret.
Now im not looking at metacritic, but MoH is another good example. The reviews were not great but users all over really enjoyed it.
Theres a distinct difference in the two types of analysis though. And both can be important given they are at least informational and not a long tangent. A user review typically will be about preference and a like for a specific genre and so on. While a review from the critics are in depth and typically thought out to cover the broad range of offerings. Sometimes its easier to relate to another user. Thats how I see it anyways.
Okay now that is just silly, I have admitted to having issues with the reboot and new form of Dante, but this game is clearly not 3.2 material. Just because I do not approve of the direction the series has taken doesnt mean I am going to go on an outrage and slap it a 1, I simply will not buy it until it becomes very cheap to satisfy a curiousity. I feel exactly the same about Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance, another game which has mad radical changes from it's original form ( I was happy with what I saw before it became Revengeance.)
3.2 lol troll fanboy reviews I played the demo and didn't like it, but that wasn't a 3.2 DMC is a well deserving 8 game.
I think some gamers need to just back off and realise it's just a game.
I remember when Zelda II, Windwaker and Metroid Prime came out there was a huge fan outcry as well. People just don't do change very well. I can understand where they are coming from. Thankfully change doesn't bother me to much. One change I was very upset with was how Id Software changed the Baron of Hell from DOOM to DOOM 3!!!!! Now that pissed me off!
On the flip side, I believe the developer should realize and anticipate this fan outcry and offer a an option to check a box in the options to change the main character or enemy to look like what they want. I think in DMC there is a white wig you can find. It would be nice for the die hard white haired DMC fans to have the option right from the get go without having to find a wig or however it's handled in DMC.
Gotta admit, if say… Sephiroth, was given a haircut and purple hair, the FF fans would have an outlash. I googled old dante and looking at the new… Uh… New Dante i can understand why they hate the way he looks. Old Dante had this flair and looked like a badarse. The new one looks extremely flamboyant and just nothing like the old one. The fans grew up playing DMC so seeing their protagonist change upsets them.
Note, i have never played a DMC game before. Unless Dante's inferno counts. Anyway, if i were to see one of my favorite characters turned into something that looks less epic then i would be upset too. Thats just my opinion though, and i don't think the fans thumbs downing the new game is right, but they want to feel like their doing something to change the new dante. Its better than them cutting themselves. (the whole justin beiber thing made me laugh so hard and shake my head in disappoint)
Inferno > all DmC games.
Do you realise that the new Dante, is a much YOUNGER Dante.
What, did you think that Dante looked like that his entire life do you?
I know he is a Nephilim and everything, but I would find it hard to see any mother giving birth to a fully grown male. So yeah, he HAD to have grown up from something.
The game looked horrible from the gitgo and the remade character look is horrid. Not a chance of this ever running on my console.
I'm confused… has DmC in past games prior to PS3 had 60fps? If not… then these framerate complainers don't make much sense to me.
All the previous games ran at a constant 60fps. I will do a review down the line, I've returned my rented copy and the whole thing that few gamers have gone on about, that I know of, are the fps. The game and story are fine but in a gameplay perspective it is a 7 to me. I've followed the series since its inception and for people to say that I don't notice a drop is crap. I've played them on the ps2, ps3, and those that are available on the pc. It is a different beast on a competent pc that can run it at 60+fps. Anyways I'm ranting. The game is good, as a dmc game it fails. Again, my opinion. Thanks for being respectful by the way :).
Nobody said you couldn't notice. We said it didn't make much of a difference. I also said saying that the mechanic somehow suffers just because it isn't as fast is a blatantly false and purely biased judgment.
Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 1/16/2013 11:44:09 PM
It isn't biased. I didn't play the game with an agenda. I played it to enjoy it, the game is fine but I preferred the 60fps. It is simple as that. I wouldn't have gone and rented to just bs everybody that I played it and its "crap" because it isn't. It is a good game, as a game in the dmc franchise it is not. I don't like the way that they changed Dante's personality to fit the directors own.
I see no issue with the new DMC. The first time I seen it I thought wow, this is so different, but after playing it a bit, and realising the fact that the new Dante is a much younger Dante, then I am completely fine with it.
I would definitely call it a worthy addition to the DMC franchise.
It may be a reboot, but I see it more as an origins story.
obviously, this was NEVER going to go down well with the fans!
its amazing how anti change and progression people have become these days!
yea id love to see the series go back to a in house, more darker less colorful, 60FPS style, something more like DMC3.
but that does not mean DMC is a bad game, in fact FAR from it!
see it more like the fantasy reboot of PoP, or red faction guerrilla.
2 VERY different games to their respective franchise, but also 2 of THE best games in said franchise!
not saying DMC is the best in the series, far from it, but its no where the stinker DMC2 was!
i wasent a big fan of the original either, in fact id have to say this is probably the 3rd best game in the series.
really hated DMC4, the combat just felt so wrong, and the repeat dante missions did not help, but there was something about the level design and environments that just felt so DMC!
something im REALLY missing now, the reboots level design, environments, just look and feel so wrong!
So, in other words, you have only liked DMC3 and the new DMC?
Hahahaha…..
It's a shame really… The problem is half or more than half of those reviews aren't even real. They are trolls who like to bash a game before they even play a minute of it. The net breeds idiots unfortunately. I agree that to say these games only should get a 3.2 or 4.0 score is just ridiculous. The fact that the developers were getting death threats before the game even came out over how dante looked is really just sad. In the final release he doesn't even look that bad to be honest. Not as emo as he did in the first trailers that came out. Oh and did anyone laugh when he was looking in the mirror and the white wig was thrown on his head? I thought that was a nice little jab at the naysayers. LOL
Ben,
My Buddy,
BOPS 2 deserves a lower score then 4.0. I am ashamed you still side with companies whose goal is to monetize, not innovate. A man who admires game's that require the most imagination to make, RPG's. It makes no logical since and is very hypocritical.
In relation to user reviews, they should always be taking into consideration. Often times its the so called reviewer that scores a game to high, not the average user. If history has taught us anything, its that we should remember it and learn from it.
I suspect there are two types of people making up these two user scores. The haters: they exist, and the scholars. These scholars take all past works from a franchise and make an informed analysis of the most current form of such franchise.
If we look at DMC and BOPS 2 as a stand alone game, we get a decent product. If we take the collaboration or evolution of that franchise to base our decision we get something else. This is why i believe the user score's and the metacritic score are so far apart; neither of which, are wrong or should not be considered when purchasing wither DMC or BOPS2
Last edited by The Real Deal on 1/17/2013 4:39:13 PM
I'm a definite DMC fan and love every title-yes, even the crappy 2nd game-but I don't understand the mass amount of fanboy hatred.
1. It was Capcom's decision to change devs, don't hate on Ninja Theory. DMC4 sales were the highest from the franchise but still not enough to satify CAPCOM, even releasing multiplatform: possibly because of increased development cause. They chose a western dev to reboot the franchise. It's common sense the game isn't going to look and feel the same.
2. Even I was upset about the change in appearance: hair, body type, etc. of Dante but it all made sense for a reboot. It's more an origin story and I wanted to see how Dante got his white hair, his relationship with his brother, and how he came to be the guy from the 1st game (that's what made it exciting).
3. The biggest issue is gameplay but that goes for any game. After playing it I believe both games (old DMC and new DmC) have similar combat but I find the pacing of the story more inviting with the new entry. Specially since there is something to follow. I do miss the darker-themed color scheme and gothic art though; should've kept that.
4. Capcom does have a say in the creation of content for the game. They wouldn't allow NT to completely change the idea of the character or world of DmC. I mean they brought someone from their studio to collaborate with NT.